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"Crack the SEGA Saturn copy protection" contest

Mr. Saturn - Feb 26, 2005

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		Quakester2000		Mar 12, 2005
			At least we now know who makes the saturn cdrs, it seems to be Sophia Systems Co LTD (Thanks to croft). So maybe someone should contact them and see if they will make a batch.

		SUPERCOM32		Mar 12, 2005
			SUPERCOM32> Cd Saturn_HK SUPERCOM32> Type msc.txt The Magic Strong Card produced in China/HK/Taiwan allows users to run pirate Saturn CDs (Silvers) without the need for a mod chip. The card plugs into the cartridge port of the Saturn and uses an original game in order to facilitate a CD swap. The card monitors the Saturn and prompts the user during the various steps in the boot process. After each prompt, the CD drive is stopped by the card and the user is required to change CDs (ether to an Original or HK Silver). After the swap is complete, the CD drive is started again and the process is repeated until the game is loaded. The card requires that the user shorts the CD-ROM door mechanism in order to prevent the OS from detecting its open/close state. Due to the advent of mod chips, the Magic Strong Card was made obsolete (last revision at v2.0) as the chips provided cheap and swap-less operation while allowing stores/manufactures to generate greater revenues through installation and servicing. In Asia, mod chips were cheap to produce, but traditionally expensive to install (as charged from stores). This was due to the fact that people could not afford original CDs. In most cases, the customerâs only recourse would be to pay the extremely high price to have a store install a mod chip for them. The chips on the other hand, were cheap and easy to produce, which meant higher profits for retailers and manufactures. SUPERCOM32>

		Quakester2000		Mar 12, 2005
			Just thought id let you know the guys over at assembler forums are debating the saturn cd protecton. They seem to think finding an exploit in the Mpeg / VCD card could help. http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...

		HI_Ricky		Mar 12, 2005
			may be try that for all lazy people

		mal		Mar 12, 2005
			croft - are your Saturn CDRs both sealed or is one of them open? I've got a beta of Virtual Open Tennis on a "Saturn" CDR that comes in a case just like the one that you've posted pics of, but it has no security ring on it. Just wondering... HI_Ricky - does that actually work? People have hypothesised that it would, but AFAIK no ever tried it out. Until now anyway.

		Quakester2000		Mar 12, 2005
			Whats the difference between KD01 and KD02 system discs?

		mrkotfw		Mar 12, 2005
			there is a copy floating around here that mal linked to.

		HI_Ricky		Mar 12, 2005
			$ega make alot ver system disc, but KD01 is look like best one there is hex view what different KD01 and KD02 info

		mal		Mar 12, 2005
			I posted an image of the "black" 3rd party disc here not that long ago, but I just can't remember where. :huh Here... it is again.

Quakester2000

Mar 12, 2005

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by mal@Sat, 2005-03-12 @ 06:40 PM



I posted an image of the "black" 3rd party disc here not that long ago, but I just can't remember where. :huh



Here... it is again.



[post=131342]Quoted post[/post]

I assume that disc only boots 3rd party games and not 1st party ones.

mal

Mar 12, 2005

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by Quakester2000@Sun, 2005-03-13 @ 04:43 AM



I assume that disc only boots 3rd party games and not 1st party ones.



[post=131344]Quoted post[/post]

AFAIK that's right. It's been a long time since I've looked at this.

HI_Ricky - you still haven't said if chopping up CDs and CDRs works or not.

HI_Ricky

Mar 12, 2005

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by mal@Sat, 2005-03-12 @ 12:44 PM



AFAIK that's right. It's been a long time since I've looked at this.



HI_Ricky - you still haven't said if chopping up CDs and CDRs works or not.



[post=131345]Quoted post[/post]

chopping up CDs and CDRs it not work , you must CUT CDs. go find one cheap or no use saturn disc CUT it make a cool system disc

Quakester2000

Mar 12, 2005

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by mal@Sat, 2005-03-12 @ 06:44 PM



AFAIK that's right. It's been a long time since I've looked at this.



HI_Ricky - you still haven't said if chopping up CDs and CDRs works or not.



[post=131345]Quoted post[/post]

That disc you linked to that is the 3rd party disc i assume, but did the first party disc get released and where can you get it.

		croft		Mar 13, 2005
			Hi Mal, Both Sega blanks are sealed and brand new. They do have the security ring on them and the rest is blank. They were directly from Sega. They burn at 4 speed, A boot image could easily be recorded and in effect a Sega Saturn boot cd created which would need no disk swapping at all? They are both brand new, Cheers Mal, Ian.

AntiPasta

Mar 13, 2005

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by Borisz@Sat, 2005-03-12 @ 01:10 PM



The VCD card is only used as another piece of hardware in the Saturn, like if you would plug in another joystick so to speak. If it's there, it will be used by games that use it. If it isn't, big whoop.



well, its actually not as simple as that, but you get the idea.



[post=131324]Quoted post[/post]

I'm sorry but I disagree - the VCD card mainly served to play VCD's, and NOT as an addon for games. The thing is, the CD block won't let you read beyond the first 32k of the disc, normally, if there is no security check done (which fails if there is no security ring). BUT, the VCD card can unrestrictedly read data on the whole surface of a VCD, which does NOT have the security ring.

Curtis

Mar 13, 2005

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by croft@Sun, 2005-03-13 @ 10:41 PM



Hi Mal,



Both Sega blanks are sealed and brand new.



They do have the security ring on them and the rest is blank.



They were directly from Sega.



They burn at 4 speed,



A boot image could easily be recorded and in effect a Sega Saturn boot cd created which would need no disk swapping at all?



They are both brand new,



Cheers Mal,



Ian. 



[post=131390]Quoted post[/post]

Ok, so there's two copies of the boot disc taken care of. What about some kind of long term solution to breaking the security ring? Both the original boot discs and the Saturn CDRs are very rare items, so how is this useful from the perspective of distributing games without security rings...like to lots of people...none of whom have either a blank Saturn CDR or an original boot disc?

Plus there is the non-trivial issue of boot discs being only either 3rd or 1st party - you'd need at least two discs to cover the majority of games on the market.

Curtis

Mar 13, 2005

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by AntiPasta@Sun, 2005-03-13 @ 11:11 PM



I'm sorry but I disagree - the VCD card mainly served to play VCD's, and NOT as an addon for games. The thing is, the CD block won't let you read beyond the first 32k of the disc, normally, if there is no security check done (which fails if there is no security ring). BUT, the VCD card can unrestrictedly read data on the whole surface of a VCD, which does NOT have the security ring.



[post=131392]Quoted post[/post]

And? You can do the same with an audio CD on an unmodded Saturn. Treat the VCD like an audio CD, except have the VCD card doing the decoding and you're not really doing anything special.

		Quakester2000		Mar 13, 2005
			I wonder what would happen if you burnt a disc with both video CD and sega saturn game dat onto it, with a video cd card inserted.

		croft		Mar 13, 2005
			Hi Curtis, Good point. The security ring is a major hrdle for sending games out to people. On a different note I am thinking of trying to get a normal saturn disk - cut the centre part out - then attach it to a cdr which has also been cut but still has the boot code on it. I would guess that this has already been discussed on the forum etc. It amazes me how this machine still has major hardware security after all this time? Like others have said'the boot cd code must be exploited and permanently installed into the bios chip. I guess this is essentially what the chips on the market are doing? Will let you know findings from cut disks.

Mask of Destiny

Mar 13, 2005

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by Curtis+Sun, 2005-03-13 @ 12:17 PM-->QUOTE(Curtis @ Sun, 2005-03-13 @ 12:17 PM)And? You can do the same with an audio CD on an unmodded Saturn. Treat the VCD like an audio CD, except have the VCD card doing the decoding and you're not really doing anything special.



[/b]

Actually, there is an important distinction between playing audio CDs and playing VCDs. With an audio CD, the data is never touched by the SH-2s (or even the SH-1 for that matter). All the work of decoding and doing the D/A conversion is handled by the hardware on the CD board. VCDs are essentially data CDs that have MPEG video put in the correct folders. Depending on what route the data takes to get from the CD to the MPEG decoders on the VCD card, it might actually be quite useful or it could be a complete waste of time. If someone has a dump of the ROM on the thing, I could take a look at it in the good old disassembler.