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"Crack the SEGA Saturn copy protection" contest

Mr. Saturn - Feb 26, 2005

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		Mr. Saturn	Feb 26, 2005
		Hi there you know that i want to give the game Return Fire as soon as Prolific makes it possible to the general public. As a release in the future would be much more impressive when gamers could play it just by loading the game like any original cd without having to mod their Saturns or by using the swap trick, iÂ´m very interested seeing this problem solved. Maybe i can unveil more unreleased but finished games then. (like Sonic Fighters, Bedlam, Criticom 2, Descent, Ecco, Fighting Force, Iron & Blood, etc...) So iÂ´m about to start a "Crack the SEGA Saturn copy protection" contest, giving the winner a price of letÂ´s say 200$ (Dollars) or 150â¬ (Euros)... Winner is, whoÂ´ll find a way to bypass the copy protection with a boot cd or by cheating the Saturn or something else, which outcome of this is, that gamers can play copies by just inserting the CD-R in the Saturn CD-RoM without having to install a modchip or without to apply the swap trick.... You can spread those words in other boards where they talk about finding a way to play CD-Rs, maybe the prize money starts to boost the efforts around the globe...

		mrkotfw	Feb 26, 2005
		that's very difficult to do. i don't want to be a party pooper or anything but if it was possible, there would be boot discs already.

		SeGaFrEaK_NL	Feb 26, 2005
		I'll add $50 to that..

		mrkotfw	Feb 26, 2005
		mod boards are somewhat known to work on 64 pin and even sanyo cd boards. i think consolefever... sells the same type of mod board that gamegizo used to sell. (that's just a theory)

		Mr. Saturn	Feb 26, 2005
		There were many good starts in cracking the protection, but it was never been finished because of lack of interest or lack of professional people. Breaking the protection isnÂ´t only advantageous for gamers, that they donÂ´t have to buy a modboard (as long as they are still available) or to avoid the swap trick. It would be perfect for dugging out more unreleased games and would boost the dev section... Aside of and not to mention the fact, that many Saturn CDs are getting old and scratchy...

		mrkotfw	Feb 27, 2005
		could you point me to some links of people that have attempted to crack the security ring?

Mr. Saturn

Feb 27, 2005

Originally posted by Piratero@Sun, 2005-02-27 @ 02:10 AM

could you point me to some links of people that have attempted to crack the security ring?

[post=130573]Quoted post[/post]

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=59813&pa...

		racketboy	Feb 27, 2005
		I'd add $20 to the prize pile

dj898

Feb 27, 2005

Originally posted by Piratero@Sun, 2005-02-27 @ 09:18 AM

that's very difficult to do. i don't want to be a party pooper or anything but if it was possible, there would be boot discs already.

[post=130568]Quoted post[/post]

there is and it's called System Disc.

unfortunately it uses the security ring on the disc itself so thr rip won't work without the chip...

haven't heard anyone who cracked that security ring check after all these years... and make me wonder why no one, not even Sgea, isn't using for new consoles???

		mrkotfw	Feb 27, 2005
		maybe there's something inside the first 32 bytes of a saturn disc that could let us bypass the security check like the dreamcast? btw dj898, what is that picture of in your signature? i'm guessing you're from australia or japan?

		ExCyber	Feb 27, 2005
		I'm 99% sure it could be done with custom CDC libs and a cart, if you wanted to go that route, but to be able to write a "real" Saturn disc is a fairly tall order.

dj898

Feb 27, 2005

Originally posted by Piratero+Sun, 2005-02-27 @ 02:33 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Piratero @ Sun, 2005-02-27 @ 02:33 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>btw dj898, what is that picture of in your signature? i'm guessing you're from australia or japan?

[post=130579]Quoted post[/post]
[/b]

that's the picture taken at North Sydney in one stormy day...

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xCyber@Sun, 2005-02-27 @ 02:43 PM

I'm 99% sure it could be done with custom CDC libs and a cart, if you wanted to go that route, but to be able to write a "real" Saturn disc is a fairly tall order.

[post=130581]Quoted post[/post]
[/quote]

if you burn the system disc rip onto blank Saturn CD-R I'm sure it will work as the real deal on STD saturn... getting one of these however will be a problem coz I only saw it once and the guy was asking like 15000 yen for it - it's about $150....

Sixfortyfive

Feb 27, 2005

Originally posted by ExCyber@Sat, 2005-02-26 @ 10:43 PM

I'm 99% sure it could be done with custom CDC libs and a cart

I'd definitely settle for a "boot cartridge."

		Curtis	Feb 27, 2005
		Here's a crazy thought: A lot of effort has been put into reading the bit at the end of the disc. Trying to figure out what data is on the disc to replicate it somehow. Afterall, it is the only thing that is different about a Saturn disc when compared to others, right? Wrong - there is at least one other difference. What if the system checks for the presence of nothing, rather than the presence of something? I think the holographic copyright label is a red herring from the perspective of this problem. We know that the copy protection is easily overridden, and in the thread that was posted earlier it was claimed that the outer ring actually holds no information at all. So what does that leave? The gap between the two tracks. Look at this... cutsy representation of a laser and optical pickup - what if there were a second optical pickup purely designed to detect a reflected light from another direction, ie light reflected from the gap between the tracks? If you look at the bottom of a CD you notice that the gap turns silver from certain angles, indicating that it reflects light differently to the rest of the surface. My line of thinking is that this would be easy to implement in the manufacturing process and is far more likely than Sega inventing some fancy-pants holographic CD reading technology and manufacturing process...and never using it again. It fits with the notion that the copy protection only really checks to see if something is present too, rather than verifying the integrity of some data. It'd be durable too. Crazy?

		mrkotfw	Feb 27, 2005
		that's almost crazy enough to work!

		Curtis	Feb 27, 2005
		Well if it is the case, it'll kill off any hope of replicating the copy protection at the CD level. No burner will ever be able to replicate this - not unless you can physically rotate the laser assembly.

		mrkotfw	Feb 27, 2005
		here's an idea, why not put small mirrors on the side of a spinning original disc to see if the protection passes? i can't do it because 1) i lost my only original and 2) i don't have any small mirrors.

		lordofduct	Feb 27, 2005
		Or why don't you over burn the disk as much as possible with bunk data. like all 1's. So that way its straight up reflective all the way to the end of the disk. but I talk out my ass.

Curtis

Feb 27, 2005

Originally posted by lordofduct@Sun, 2005-02-27 @ 06:45 PM

Or why don't you over burn the disk as much as possible with bunk data. like all 1's. So that way its straight up reflective all the way to the end of the disk.

Because if there are two optical pickups - one for data, one for copy protection - you'll only be reflecting light back to the data pickup and you'll be right back at square one. You need to be able to change the angle of reflection. Maybe.

but I talk out my ass.

[post=130602]Quoted post[/post]

Yeah, me too.

		mrkotfw	Feb 27, 2005
		CyberWarriorX explained to me that there is many ways but the security ring has to be checked at least once. i can't think of any other way.

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