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Working Designs
schi0249 - Nov 7, 2004
  schi0249 Nov 7, 2004
Man, they haven't released anything in so long. I went to check out there site, and it is gone. Their registration runs out in September. I wonder if they are done? Last I heard, they were fighting with Soiny to get Growlanser released. Sony is being real critical of non-PS2 games being released for the PS2 in America. Similar to how they are making Sega release the Ages titles in bundles. What got me thinking was this, I was looking throught the strategy guide for Lunar 2 on the SCD. In the interview section Vic talks about Lunar 3. Also, he talks about a new RPG they were developing. How they were looking at moving to devloping instead of translating. Whatever happened to them. It sounds as if moving to Sony was always a mistake. Early on, they wanted to release Arc the Lad. But Sony didn't let them until years later, when the game was no longer current.

 Alexvrb Nov 7, 2004
Oh well. They've done some excellent work in the past. However, they adopted a "make it better" stance instead of just concentrating on good solid translation. I don't want a game changed, I want it translated.

 SkankinMonkey Nov 8, 2004
maybe, just maybe someone put them out of business fo rmaking bad translations

 lordofduct Nov 9, 2004
Personally I like WorkingDesigns! Whats so wrong with there improvements... its not like theyve altered the story really (weel i cant say for some recent games... havent played them) but mostly I remember seeing them add save features, faster loading times (i wonder what Albert Odyssey was like in Jap!!!!!) and people who bitch about there voice overs... christ its better then any others ive heard on other games!

 Alexvrb Nov 9, 2004
Who said anything about voice overs? I don't like them altering shit that doesn't need changing. Even as far back as Lunar 2 (which was overall an EXCELLENT translation) they were changing pentagrams to magic circles or some such bullshit. It's like Lucas taking the knife to the original Star Wars trilogy, only worse because I can't read the original Jap games.

 SkankinMonkey Nov 9, 2004
and clinton jokes? wtf

 ExCyber Nov 9, 2004
Mostly I don't like Victor Ireland's apparent attitude that once he gets a license, the game is suddenly his baby. "Hey, this title sucks, let's make up a completely new one with no connection to the game!" (Vanguard Bandits), "Hey, this game isn't stupidly hard, let's wreck the gameplay to piss people off! And while we're at it we'll just badly romanize the weapon names even though it's painfully obvious that they're actually English!" (Silhouette Mirage). "Let's put pop culture jokes and sexual innuendo anywhere it'll fit! And a few more places too! After all everyone knows only 12-year-olds play video games." (Lunar PSX remakes). And so on.

 Alexvrb Nov 10, 2004
Basically.

 Sundance_3 Nov 14, 2004
As a little update, Victor Ireland just recently did an interview with IGN. You can find the artice at http://ps2.ign.com/articles/565/565988p1.html...

As for Growlaser, Nov. 29th seems to be the day that it will finally hit stores (Of course, given that this is WD, all release dates should be taken with a grain of salt).

 lordofduct Nov 14, 2004
Alexvrb - my comment on the voice overs doesnt come from here at SX... its just something I have heard people bitch about in reviews and on the streets for a long time!

As for WD's translation ethics... i guess its more of opinion, do you want the original feel to it or not. Also what makes money or not! Such as the changing of certain bg images (as you said the pentacles) first is something most wont notice because they havent played the Jap version, nor would it matter! Now adding the lude jokes can be a gripe depending someones opinion of the humor. I personally am not bothered by it, its a cute lil' ho hum feel after come into town from long stretches of battles. I didn't get a cut scene this round, but I did get a lil' joke... worth a lot more then you think. Also what else can you do if you translate a joke that would make no sense in English...i.e. word play or the sort! Now for the romanization of words, heh no ones perfect!

And this is true, im not saying that WD is perfect... they are just some of the BEST we've got in the translation area. Remember Evolution on DC, MY GOD was the horrible. It could have been a much better game if UbiSoft translated that bugger properly!

Now any complaint of difficulty changes I can't really side either way, nor support either side with anything. Ive hated and loved changes here and there. I have no real opinion on that. (for instance I hated the cost of magic EXP in Lunar 2 to save!!!! but I loved the fact they made the battles less frequent in Albert Odyssey, those load times would of made me kill myself!)

 ExCyber Nov 15, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Now for the romanization of words, heh no ones perfect!


You misunderstand; I'm not saying that they should have romanized the weapons in Silhouette Mirage better, I'm saying that the names didn't need to be romanized at all, they needed to be "de-Japanized" as they were English words in the first place. That they got creative with the spelling merely adds insult to injury.

 antime Nov 15, 2004
I bet they do anime fansubs in their spare time.

 lordofduct Nov 15, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by ExCyber@Mon, 2004-11-15 @ 09:23 AM



You misunderstand; I'm not saying that they should have romanized the weapons in Silhouette Mirage better, I'm saying that the names didn't need to be romanized at all, they needed to be "de-Japanized" as they were English words in the first place. That they got creative with the spelling merely adds insult to injury.




[post=123758]Quoted post[/post]


Actually you misunderstood me... I am just saying I have no real opinion on it. Mainly because I never played Silhouette Mirrage. The only defense i had for the measure was the fact that... no ones perfect!

What I am trying to get down to is why smash on the little guy while letting corporations take you for your money left and right with hardly any complaint from the comsumers. WD is tiny crew of FANS (yes and maybe they do right fansubs...) that want to bring good games to us and add just something of there own so to leave there mark. Its better then not getting it at all, or worst getting a crap translation. And just except it, some things do have to change... pure japanese doesnt sell as well as you think it would! you'd think SEGA sold well by looking at these boards, but the truth is they DONT!

 Alexvrb Nov 15, 2004
Nobody is saying that they have to be perfect. I just don't like the fact that they go out of their way to alter things, instead of just doing a good translation. The names don't bother me much, not even if they change already properly romanized names. What does bother me is them significantly altering the actual game or dialogue to the point that it no longer reflects what was intended by the Japanese developers.

I'm not really even bashing them, I just don't think they're all that wonderful. I've said they've done some good work, and then again they have hacked a lot of stuff up. I'd rather have Ubisoft translate more games. They did a reasonable job with Grandia 2, packaging and everything was pretty solid.

 ExCyber Nov 15, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			And just except it, some things do have to change... pure japanese doesnt sell as well as you think it would!


This is a pretty odd thing to say, considering that the course of action I suggested for Silhouette Mirage would make the game appear less Japanese. I'm not some kind of "literal translation" purist. I fully understand that any attempt at a "direct" or "literal" translation will produce stuff that looks like edited Babelfish output; it's more important to express ideas than to translate words. But there's a difference between expressing the ideas expressed by the original authors and just writing your own story and characterizations that are only loosely inspired by the original. I don't claim that WD makes a habit of practicing this on a grand scale, only that their overall attitude toward creative license is a bit too cavalier for my tastes.


  
	
	

		
		

			What I am trying to get down to is why smash on the little guy while letting corporations take you for your money left and right with hardly any complaint from the comsumers.


Because fundamentally, actions and attitude - not size - are what makes corporations suck. And while I do think Ireland has excellent taste in games and appreciate his willingness to work on them, there's this kind of vague arrogance that seems to surround everything attached to WD, like a fart that never goes away (toilet humor hat tip ). I don't fully understand it myself, because Ireland seems to be a pretty reasonable guy most of the time, but then there are things like his feud with Bernie Stolar, the fact that all of the original company credits on WD's site are shuffled off to a page titled "Legal Crap", the fact that they had a whole page in the Lunar:SSSC manual basically bragging about how much they improved the game over the Japanese version, etc. I'm not saying WD is an awful company; they do a lot of excellent work, and in a few ways embody an ideal that other companies should be looking to achieve, but some aspects of their attitude just rub me the wrong way.

 schi0249 Nov 15, 2004
I do hope they, or someone, releases the Dragon Force Sega Ages in the US. That is one of my favorite Saturn games.

 stack99 Nov 21, 2004
they are releasing Growlanser for the ps2 in a couple of weeks...

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=2...