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What exactly will the new consoles bring?

Cloud121 - Nov 10, 2005

		Cloud121	Nov 10, 2005
		I was thinking the other day, "What will the next generation consoles bring that's new and fresh?" Let's start with the NES: 8-bit: D-pad and two buttons Passwords/Battery back-up (Dunno, you think this counts?) 16-bit: Nothing real signiificant (I can't really think of anything anyway). 32-bit/64-bit: Disc becomes the standard FMV (Yes, it was added with Mega CD, but not widely accepted until Saturn/PSX). Memory cards (Again, does this count?) Analog control Current Generation: Online becomes standard (Dreamcast, then expanded upon with PS2 and Xbox). Next-Generation: ???? Yes, Nintendo is changing things with the controller, but I'm talking as a whole. All three consoles/companies. What will be the real NEW thing that comes this generation?

ExCyber

Nov 10, 2005

Originally posted by RolfWrenWalsh+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RolfWrenWalsh)</div><div class='quotemain'>8-bit:

D-pad and two buttons

Passwords/Battery back-up (Dunno, you think this counts?)[/b]

How about multicolored sprites and backgrounds? This is assuming that you consider "8-bit" to start with Colecovision, even though the Atari 2600 is technically as much of an "8-bit" system as the NES.

Originally posted by RolfWrenWalsh+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RolfWrenWalsh)</div><div class='quotemain'>16-bit:

Nothing real signiificant (I can't really think of anything anyway).[/b]

Programmable palettes (previous systems used fixed palettes, usually 8 or 16 colors). SMS is an exception to this as it had programmable palettes in the "8-bit" era. Sound synthesizers also advanced hugely in this era from basic PSGs (square/triangle/sawtooth/sinewave, which are the staples of "old-school" chip music) to FM and wavetable synthesis that actually tried to emulate instruments. Also, systems became able to handle large numbers of sprites per scanline (most "8-bit" systems can only handle 4).Basically this generation removed the more crippling limitations suffered by the "8-bit" generation. Coupled with increased ROM sizes, it really led to some major improvements in games.

Originally posted by RolfWrenWalsh

32-bit/64-bit:

Disc becomes the standard

FMV (Yes, it was added with Mega CD, but not widely accepted until Saturn/PSX).

Memory cards (Again, does this count?)

Analog control

Did you leave "polygon-based 3D graphics and 3D-centric game designs" out on purpose? That is the single most massive effect that this generation had on the industry.

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olfWrenWalsh@

Current Generation:

Online becomes standard (Dreamcast, then expanded upon with PS2 and Xbox).[/quote]I believe this is also somewhat analagous to the "16-bit" generation, in that it represents a "complete" version of the previous generation. Indeed, PSX couldn't even handle a proper port of something like Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter, due to RAM limitations. Saturn basically "cheated" by having a RAM expansion, otherwise it would have had the same problem. Draw distances and pop-up were ridiculous in many games, and humanoid characters tended to look ridiculous if there were more than a handful on screen at once. Sure, PS2/GC/Xbox have their limits, but they're not even in the same league as PSX and Saturn.

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olfWrenWalsh

Next-Generation:

????[/quote]I'm right there with you, man.

		lordofduct	Nov 10, 2005
		When he said 8-bit I think he was referring to the NES/SMS time and not the Atari, although it could be considered as much. I know what significant changes will come! 1) Multi-million dollar budgets for videogames as a common thing, no longer limited to the likes of Square or Sony with games like GT... (though I don't know what budgets they had...) 2) True massively multi-media based console systems that do more then just game. I can just see Microsoft trying to set a foot in as having the 360 as more of a center piece of the entertainment center... I'm surprised they skipped the Blu-Ray. 3) A catering to retro-gamers because the market knows that no one is making truely creative and worth while games anymore and it's flooded with FPSs and MMORPGs. Which is great for those whole love those two kinds of games, but there is a large chunk of market who really aren't going to spend 3 or 4 hundred dollars just to play Halo3 or whatever PS3 alternative there of. yes those are sarcastic

		it290	Nov 10, 2005
		I think we'll start seeing games that allow user-created content on the console version. Also, games are going to start using procedurals for a lot more stuff, either dynamically or to create the premade content (as in Oblivion). And I think particularly on the Revolution we'll also see a slight trend towards more 'artistic' games like Rez. Not a mainstream trend but just a few more games that take themselves seriously as works of art. And no, MGS doesn't count.

		Cloud121	Nov 10, 2005
		I just knew ExCyber was going to get real technical. I intentionally left out graphic and sound enhancements, as those come every single generation, and are to be expected. I started with the crash, because it was the NES that revitalized the industry, and completely changing the controller to the d-pad and two buttons is what helped do that.

		it290	Nov 10, 2005
		I don't think the controller was a real decisive factor in the success of the NES.

		Cloud121	Nov 10, 2005
		But it was a complete departure from the days of the 2600, Coleco, and Intellivison. Later adopted by the SMS, and well, rest is history.

		it290	Nov 10, 2005
		Not to be argumentative, but the Intellivision's disc was really pretty similar to the NES' dpad.

ExCyber

Nov 11, 2005

Originally posted by RolfWrenWalsh"

I intentionally left out graphic and sound enhancements, as those come every single generation, and are to be expected.

I mentioned them mostly to emphasize that there were specific problems solved by each generation. It's not just that graphics and sound got better, they got better in ways that let developers do things that they couldn't really do (or do well) previously. Maybe a new console generation will really be justified when HDTV actually takes off, as opposed to the fantasy world MS is apparently living in where HDTV is massively popular already (or do they think 360 will make everyone buy one?)...

Cloud121

Nov 11, 2005

or do they think 360 will make everyone buy one?

That is the sad truth.

		lordofduct	Nov 13, 2005
		Everyone I know is STILL using a coaxial connection for their games. I finally got my buddy Pate who collects also to convert over to something better (only RCA composite), it took a year of convincing him its a better picture quality. I don't know though... here in South Florida HDTV is really picking up fast. All the cable/Sat companies are pushing it a lot (finally, for awhile they only offered converter boxes with RCA comp... it was hard to find one with merely Svid). And what is wrong with MS doing that? It is just another group pushing the mainstreaming of HD. That way it is there for those of us who have it and it gives others the drive to want to get it. It's what a mere extra few cents for them to toss in those Component/Comp cable combo in the box. The more people see it on their everyday devices in there homes they notice there IS a use for it. That is why a lot of people don't buy it because they feel they don't need it... ugh, I sounded like a capitalist.

		it290	Nov 14, 2005
		I'll take my scanlines, thankyouverymuch.

lordofduct

Nov 14, 2005

Originally posted by it290@Mon, 2005-11-14 @ 02:12 AM

I'll take my scanlines, thankyouverymuch.

[post=141714]Quoted post[/post]

huh?

We still have scanlines...

		Pyrite	Nov 14, 2005
		N64 - Rumble pak. PSX - Dual analogue stick.

		Berty	Nov 14, 2005
		im not real excited about shelling out more cash for a small performance increase. Maybe im getting to old for this shit. Im still trying to get through the back-catalogue of saturn and megadrive games before i move on

ExCyber

Nov 14, 2005

Originally posted by lordofduct+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lordofduct)</div><div class='quotemain'>And what is wrong with MS doing that?[/b]

Nothing's "wrong" with it; I just think they have unrealistic expectations.

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erty

im not real excited about shelling out more cash for a small performance increase[/quote]Brought to you by Gamestation 256! It's slightly faster... TO THE MAX!!!

it290

Nov 14, 2005

We still have scanlines...

Just trying to say that SDTV is better when it comes to 2d gaming. Any 2d games that come out for the next generation consoles are likely to look even crappier (on HD) than the ones out for current console. Unless some company makes a 2d game in HDTV resolution, but that's pretty unlikely.

		ExCyber	Nov 14, 2005
		I can imagine Treasure, Cave, and maybe "Team Viewtiful" doing at least pseudo-2D if not true 2D games that look good in HD...

		it290	Nov 14, 2005
		Well, Cave has yet to do a game that runs in hi-res, and unfortunately the recent PS2 port of Mushihimesama was marred by running in hi-res mode, unlike the ports of Dodonpachi DOJ and ESPGaluda. But yeah, maybe if they start using Type-X as their arcade hardware or something we'll see some hi-res action from them. As for games like Gradius V or Viewtiful Joe, yeah, they look great, but they don't really count as 2D IMO. I like 2D graphics for the hand-drawn look nearly as much as I like them for the gameplay.

		ExCyber	Nov 14, 2005
		Sadly, I think hand-pixeling is a dying art in the industry. There are some amateurs who are pretty amazing, but it seems that the money's gotten out of it for the most part, while most publishers seem to be pulled to the extremes of shovelware (Spongebob Squarepants, anyone?), updating last year's sports game, and getting the next big epic AAA title. There really seems to be no clear place in the industry for small players trying to actually make good games anymore.