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retroborg - May 24, 2004

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		retroborg		May 24, 2004
			Hello. I want to be able to record a movie from a TV channel (through antenna) on my HD, save it as any valid video file type and then play it on my pc using any media player. I also want to be able to connect my video VCR to my pc and convert a movie from tape in my HD. Once this is achieved, Iâll want to burn these from my HD onto DVD-Rom and play them on my DVD player or Sony PS-2. What hardware/software will I need to carry out this formidable task? Video Quality of the final result is very important in my book. Any links will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

		Alexvrb		May 24, 2004
			Quality is only going to be as good as the source. However, you shouldn't need much to accomplish this. Get a good PCI TV tuner for your computer, one with the appropriate inputs, like s-video and/or composite RCA depending on your VCR. You'll be able to hook up a television source (whether antenna/cable) through the RF connector. I would recommend using a fairly modern VCR with either RCA or s-video output to get the most out of your VHS tapes. You'll need reasonably fast computer, at least 1Ghz would be nice, but less should work OK depending on the TV tuner. With a decent TV tuner, the included software/hardware will allow you to record in decently high resolution, high bitrate MPEG-2 + stereo sound (depending on source). After that, you should have no trouble burning a DVD with something like Nero. It's up to you what tuner you buy, maybe somebody else can give you advice. I'd stay away from anything really cheap, but you don't need to spend $100 to get an analog TV tuner. I'd say around $50. At a quick glance, I see a PixelView PlayTV Pro Ultra for around $47 on newegg.com, and that seems to be getting good ratings. Looks decent - something like that should work out well.

		gameboy900		May 24, 2004
			If it's going to DVD you need a more expensive tuner that can record directly to 720x480 resolution. Most of the cheap ones only do 640x480. Also on the fly MPEG2 encoding is NOT a good idea if you want optimum image quality. What you want to do idealy is record the source at 720x480 30fps UNCOMPRESSED. Then edit out what you don't want and figure out exactly how long the video is. You can then use one of the many online DVD bitrate calculators (like this one http://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm)... to calculate the exact bitrate to encode at. Then you use that bitrate with 2 pass VBR encoding in TMPGENC. This is the best way if image quality is your primary goal.

		Curtis		May 24, 2004
			Another thing to consider is free-to-air Digital TV. I know that in the US you have access to DIVCO Fusion DTV PCI cards that are widely regarded as one of the best brands. If the channels you're interested in are on digital, this would be the best option for you. One of the later revisions of this card might even be able to capture directly into DVD format MPEG 2, although you'll most likely have to convert from DTV mpeg 2 format to DVD mpeg 2 manually.

Alexvrb

May 24, 2004

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by gameboy900@May 25, 2004 @ 01:30 AM



 If it's going to DVD you need a more expensive tuner that can record directly to 720x480 resolution. Most of the cheap ones only do 640x480. Also on the fly MPEG2 encoding is NOT a good idea if you want optimum image quality. What you want to do idealy is record the source at 720x480 30fps UNCOMPRESSED.

First of all, the approx $50 one I listed supports full resolution - 720 x 480 for NTSC, more for PAL. Go visit Prolink's site, it also has a 10-bit decoder. Second, if you record at the right bitrate, you can just take what you recorded and burn it to a DVD. Finally, if you REALLY need completely lossless (which again doesn't matter for his purposes, he isn't trying to do major editing, he's trying to get stuff onto DVDs) you could always use huffyuv or similar. That would save you a tremendous amount of trouble.

Curtis brought up a good point if the channels you are recording are digital... but it doesn't sound like it.

		retroborg		May 25, 2004
			I live in Europe. My multi-system SHARP VCR has RCA Input & Output (Yellow, Red, White), Antenna IN & RF-Out My PC: P4 2.4GHZ 768MB RDRAM 400MHZ GeForce4 Ti4200 128MB + TV-Out 120GB SeaGate HD SB Live 5.1 WinXP SP1 + All updates Some of my VHS tapes are in SECAM. My VCR does support them, but I donât know if this TV-Tuner will be able to capture them. My PAL & NTSC tapes & TV antenna channels, wont have any problems hopefullyâ¦ I'm thinking about buying this: Terratec Cinergy 400 TV The price is ok for what it offers. http://productsen.terratec.net/modules.php...id=13...

		Curtis		May 25, 2004
			Isn't digital broadcasting even more widespread in Europe than the US? I still think this is a much better option than analogue TV capture. AFAIK, SECAM is a standard close enough to PAL that they are essentially identical.

		Alexvrb		May 25, 2004
			That tuner should work fine. It says it can record in VCD/SVCD/DVD formats, which means you could just capture it at the right bitrate/codec just by using that preset. Your PC is fast enough to do that without trouble, and it would make burning it after recording it a snap.

		gameboy900		May 25, 2004
			See the problem is that unless you know how long the final video is the "correct" bitrate is just a guess. So unless you measure stuff properly (easiest if you capture and edit first) and THEN calculate the bitrate you can get the best possible picture quality you can achieve in the amount of space you have. Those DVD presets on caputure cards that record MPEG2 often set the bitrate at 8000kbps CBR recording which if you're lucky will get you around an hour worth of video per DVD disc. Also using any compression and then editing out can often introduce keyframe artifacts, time delays (or extensions) and audio sync problems. Another issue to keep in mind is that most of the cheaper TV capture cards are set to a specific video encoder (NTSC, PAL or SECAM). Generally this is whatever is the standard in the country they are meant to be sold in. Since having each format would require a different decoder they often save money by simply including only the needed decoder chip and swap them out for different regions. There are cards that have a decoder chip that can handle different formats but they also often are locked into a specific format in their firmware. So be absolutely sure that the card you're getting can support all the formats you need to deal with.

mal

May 25, 2004

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by gameboy900@May 26, 2004 @ 11:00 AM



 Another issue to keep in mind is that most of the cheaper TV capture cards are set to a specific video encoder (NTSC, PAL or SECAM). Generally this is whatever is the standard in the country they are meant to be sold in. Since having each format would require a different decoder they often save money by simply including only the needed decoder chip and swap them out for different regions. There are cards that have a decoder chip that can handle different formats but they also often are locked into a specific format in their firmware. So be absolutely sure that the card you're getting can support all the formats you need to deal with.

Spot on.

I bought a (quite expensive) TV capture card recently and was horrified to find that it was "locked" to PAL only capture on the composite and S-Video inputs. Fortunately it only required a minor registry edit to free it up.

Alexvrb

May 26, 2004

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by gameboy900@May 26, 2004 @ 01:00 AM



 See the problem is that unless you know how long the final video is the "correct" bitrate is just a guess. So unless you measure stuff properly (easiest if you capture and edit first) and THEN calculate the bitrate you can get the best possible picture quality you can achieve in the amount of space you have. Those DVD presets on caputure cards that record MPEG2 often set the bitrate at 8000kbps CBR recording which if you're lucky will get you around an hour worth of video per DVD disc. Also using any compression and then editing out can often introduce keyframe artifacts, time delays (or extensions) and audio sync problems.

All he might need to do is cut it, and his sources aren't exactly outrageous quality to begin with, so I don't think CBR MPEG2 would be a big issue. But if he cares to, he can use a lossless codec very easily, which would be much smaller than uncompressed. Uncompressed is just painful.

		retroborg		May 28, 2004
			The Leadtek WinFast DV2000 supports all the major signals, including SECAM. http://www.leadtek.com/multimedia/winfast_dv2000_2... It looks good. But if I bought the Terratec Cinergy 400 TV Stereo instead & connect it to a multi-system SHARP VCR which has RCA Input & Output (Yellow, Red, White), Antenna IN & RF-Out and supports SECAM, will the VCR convert the SECAM VHS tapes to PAL before Output, in order for the Terratec card to recognise it? It only supports PAL/NTSC, but I've read that it gives a better picture quality than the Leadtek Winfast DV2000. http://productsen.terratec.net/modu...id=136&menu=... http://www.m-e.dk/shop/... Max. Resolution: 1600x1200 Standard: PAL / NTSC Interface: PCI/ IR remote Record: SVCD / VCD / DVD Nicam Stereo TV Tuner/ Text TV / DivX support Iâm confused.

		Alexvrb		May 28, 2004
			If the VCR can play back those SECAM tapes on a PAL TV, then a PAL-capable TV tuner shouldn't have any problems. I don't know if it can, I'm just saying if that is true then you'll be fine.

		retroborg		May 30, 2004
			Could anyone that has tried these 2 TV tuners, tell me which one can achieve the best picture quality, either from TV antenna or VCR signal? Terratec Cinegy 400TV http://productsen.terratec.net/modules.php...id=13... Leadtek WinFast DV2000 http://www.leadtek.com/multimedia/winfast_dv2000_1... Thanks.

		retroborg		Jun 2, 2004
			In the above 2 sites, is not cleared if the 2 cards can capture in raw avi, or just in MPEG-1/MPEG-2/MPEG-4/WMV/VCD/DVD. Which of the above is the best 3rd party program, to capture from TV antenna or VCR to avi? Do they support both of these cards? Links? Thanks.

		Alexvrb		Jun 2, 2004
			If you use a program like VirtualDub you can capture to whatever you want. If you don't want to use lossy compression until you make a final encode, don't use uncompressed. Your computer is fast enough, use huffyuv or similar. The audio isn't as huge uncompressed, so that's not as big a concern.

		retroborg		Jun 3, 2004
			You mean capture the video in RAW AVI 1st and then encode in mpeg1 or 2 using virtualdub? This will ensure the best quality of the final encode? What's huffyuv?

Alexvrb

Jun 4, 2004

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by retroborg@Jun 3, 2004 @ 01:25 PM



 You mean capture the video in RAW AVI 1st and then encode in mpeg1 or 2 using virtualdub?



This will ensure the best quality of the final encode?



What's huffyuv?

I don't think using raw will really matter that much given your source, but if you're thinking of capturing to raw uncompressed avi, don't. Instead use a lossless codec like huffyuv. Lossless means it doesn't lose any data. This is different from Lossy codecs like MPEG1/2/4, MP3, etc, that compress great but lose data.

So huffyuv is a lossless codec that is identical to uncompressed (when decoded), but it is a bit smaller. There are other lossless codecs out there that may even be better, like Alparysoft has one... (but they have lossless AND lossy modes, so choose the mode that is "without any mathematical loss".

		retroborg		Jun 4, 2004
			OK. Letâs get this straight. If I use Huffyuv codec and VirtualDub, Iâll be able to capture Videos as AVIs half the size of the regular AVIs and all this without any quality loss? If I use VirtualDub without Huffyuv codec, Iâll capture large RAW AVIs which are considered âuncompressedâ Once I capture AVIs with the Huffyuv codec & VirtualDub, whatâs the best method to encode them into MPEG-1/MPEG-2/MPEG-4/WMV/VCD/DVD, while achieving the best video quality & frame rate? I want to burn them onto DVD and play them on My SONY PS-2. Thanks in advance.

		Curtis		Jun 4, 2004
			Using HuffyUV in lossless mode (I'm pretty sure is can do lossy encoding too) will give you a smaller AVI file than uncompressed without quality loss. Not too sure about half the size, but it'll definately be smaller. To play the video on a PS2, you'll need to convert to MPEG-2 using another application like Tmpeg enc. MPEG-2 conversions are lengthy and you'll probably have to convert the audio to an AC3 format for compatibility if the PS2. If you capture directly into MPEG-2 with whatever TV Tuner you eventually get, you'll be sacrificing quality to get the encoding done in realtime, so an uncompressed/HuffyUV AVI capture -> MPEG-2 conversion will deliver the best quality final video file. http://www.doom9.org... has mucho information on capture/encoding, as does http://www.videohelp.com/...

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