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This is f----ed up....
stack99 - Apr 7, 2004
  stack99 Apr 7, 2004
Check this out... this is messed up..

http://microsoft.gamerfeed.com/gf/news/6011/...

 Gallstaff Apr 7, 2004
This is one step closer to to George Orwell's vision of 1984

 Mexician Apr 7, 2004
Now don't NOL the fbi kiddies! :lol:

 ExCyber Apr 7, 2004
The FBI always wants to be able to wiretap everything. This isn't news. I'm more worried about oversight than about the powers per se; almost any power can be abused.

 Kaneda Apr 7, 2004
with the "AL QAEDA is trying to kill your children" syndrom, they'll got access to everything they want now...

 Zero 9 Apr 7, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Looks like witches are in season,



You better fly your flag and be aware



Of anyone who might fit the description,



Diversity is now our biggest fear.



Now with our conversations tapped



And our differences exposed,



How ya supposed to love your neighbor



With our minds and curtains closed[question_mark]



We used to worry ībout big brother,



Now we got a big father and an even bigger muther.



And still you believe



This aristocracy gives a fuck about you.



They put the mock in demockracy



And you swallowed every hook.



The sad truth is you would rather



Follow the school into the net



Cuz swimming alone at sea



Is not the kind of freedom you actually want.


 schi0249 Apr 7, 2004
Zero, that poem is good and so true. Did you write it?

 PUNJABEE Apr 8, 2004
schi0249

Thats an excerpt from the song "Re-Gaining Unconsciousness" by the wonderful, awesome band NoFX, off of their "The War on Errorism" record, its their latest.

www.nofxofficalwebsite.com...

one of the best bands on the planet.

 Alexvrb Apr 8, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by ExCyber@Apr 7, 2004 @ 07:35 PM



 The FBI always wants to be able to wiretap everything. This isn't news. I'm more worried about oversight than about the powers per se; almost any power can be abused.


Yep.

 joe81 Apr 8, 2004
anyone listen to Rice today? her speach just seemed like a campain for bush more than what happend

 schi0249 Apr 8, 2004
I'm familiar with nofx's older music. I have tapes of a bunch of their early albums. Both of my sister's were big fans of them in the 90's. But i haven't listened to any of their newer stuff (post 1996).

 mtxblau Apr 8, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by joe81@Apr 7, 2004 @ 09:13 PM



 anyone listen to Rice today? her speach just seemed like a campain for bush more than what happend


This is pretty off-topic, but I really didn't get this quote:


  
	
	

		
		

			She testified that she did not remember whether she discussed with Bush concerns about al Qaeda cells inside the United States.



"I don't remember the al Qaeda cells being something that we were told we needed to do something about," she said.


Couldn't... remember? She's the National Security Advisor!

Back on topic, NOFX is fantastic. Not the greatest ever, but really good.

 it290 Apr 8, 2004
Right. And she shouldn't need to be 'told' to do something about them.

 stack99 Apr 8, 2004
Rice was tap dancing like sammy davis... shit... wtf.. man there is alot of covering up going on there....

 Alexvrb Apr 9, 2004
Sigh. You guys have to remember who is grilling her. A lot of those questions are pretty loaded...

 mtxblau Apr 11, 2004
I'm trying to take her side (no, really I am) because hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20, and no one could have reasonably foreseen 9/11, however, some of her answers were highly suspect (including the quote I copied and pasted here). Regardless of her other answers, U.S.S. Cole had occurred shortly before Bush took office, and a probe hadn't concluded on that attack until about May of 2001, so to say that the NSA didn't remember talking about Al Qaeda (who was definitively linked to the attack) is asinine, no matter how you look at it. Further, the memo that was finally declassified did talk at some length about Al Qaeda, so again, that comment is highly suspect.

But that's just me. I'm not the NSA, so I wouldn't know really how high up the ladder Bin Laden was, I'm just armchair quarterbacking. But, you have to wonder.

 Sundance_2 Apr 11, 2004

  


Unfortunately , alot of this has to do with aspects of the Patriot Act and increased enforcement capabilities ( and collaborations ) between law enforcement agencies. Here's a link for a complete listing of the act itself. For stuff pertaining to what this topic is about, check out the stuff on wiretapping and data transfer interception:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html...

Fortunately, the Patriot Act expires this year. Whether it is voted to stick around depends on Congress.

 stack99 Apr 11, 2004
with all the 9/11 stuff still fresh and the "terrorism" threats by the gov, I don't think the patriot act will be going away anytime soon...

 Sundance_2 Apr 11, 2004
I do think that it will receive heavy revisions though if it is kept.

For example, the sections that implies a law enforcement agency can enter your home and perform a search while your gone and then not immedietally tell you that they did ( citing national security ), among other parts of the act, will continue to be under scrutiny.

There are some serious privacy issues (as there always have been with this act). The only difference between now and then is that people realize how hastefully this bill was pushed through.

Certainly there are constitutional issues that will come up in the process also.

 Alexvrb Apr 13, 2004
Indeed. Something else to note - the FBI was (originally) primarily meant to Investigate things after/while the incident occured/occurs. Now that they (and other agencies such as Homeland) are being set up to PREVENT, they are going to need the ability to do things like tap communications. Otherwise, how the heck do you catch and stop bad stuff? I do agree that the Patriot Act should and probably will be moderated. As Sundance said, things have a way of working themselves out in the system - it isn't all bad.

As an aside, I might also note that the FBI *rarely* acts in haste, so when you wonder why it takes them so long to do something, it is because they generally do really thorough investigations. They need to really get everything and nail them, they try and leave the hasty botched investigations to more local law enforcement whenever possible. Although, being human beings, they suck and make mistakes.

Ooh, amazingly enough I thought of something else to throw out there. Part of the reason why the CIA and FBI have had such poor communication (as we discussed last week in my Govt class) is because they were set up to have poor/slow lines of communication. That may sound stupid, and it is changing, but it did have a purpose. The CIA can only operate outside, the FBI mostly inside. The idea of having two seperate organizations was to PREVENT some 1984-ness. Imagine if the FBI/Homeland didn't exist, and there was only the CIA for everything? Sure, they'd share information pretty easily... at any rate, they realized that the system was outdated and flawed, and better coodination is being put in place between the FBI, Homeland, and the CIA.