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| SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown! |
| ST Dragon - Feb 17, 2005 |
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it290 | Feb 17, 2005 | |
| SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown! Y'know, I want to say Genesis, but the PC Engine is just so rad. It's the ultimate fusion of late 80's technology and mid 80's sensibility. | |||
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it290 | Feb 18, 2005 | ||
| SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown! You're just saying that because you have bit envy. | ||||
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Cloud121 | Feb 18, 2005 | |
| SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown! Didn't I already do this? Oh yeah, I forgot the PCEngine.  | |||
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Mask of Destiny | Feb 18, 2005 | ||
SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!
That's probably the source of my misunderstanding. It's been a while since I read about it. | ||||
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CrazyGoon | Feb 18, 2005 | ||
SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!
A lesson well learnt. But why exclude the good ol' NeoGeo from this showdown? And when we refer to 'bits' in videogame consoles, it's not the CPU that is measured, but rather it's the GPU... | ||||
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ST Dragon | Feb 18, 2005 | |
| SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown! The PC-Engine had: 2 8-bit HuC6280 processors CPU Speed 3.16Mhz each Not one. http://darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com/console/turbo.h... And 2 16bit GPUs Video Processor: HuC6270 Color Processor: HuC6260 http://darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com/console...o_gra... ___________________ ____________________ ____________________ __________________ | | Neo Geo | SNES | Genesis | TG-16 | NES | Sega MS2 | |----------+------- ---+----------+----- -----+----------+--- -------+----------| |Bits (CPU)| 8 + 16 | 16 | 16 | 8 + 8 | 8 | 8 | |Bits (Gx) | 16 | 16 | 16 | 16 | 8 | 8 | |CPU | 68000| 65816 | 68000 | HuC6280| 6502 | Z80 | |APU (Aud) | Z80| SPC???? | Z80 | | | | |MHz | 12.5, 4| 3.6 | 7.6 | 3.6 3.6| 1.8 | 3.6 | |Graphics | 320 x 224| 256 x 224| 320 x 224| 256 x 256| 256 x 240| 240 x 226| | -2nd mode| | 512 x 448|320 x 448*| 320x256**| | | |Planes | 3 | ? | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | |Colors |4096/65536| 256/32768| 61/512 | 482/512 | 16/52 | 52/256 | |Sprites | 380 | 128 | 80 | 64 | 8 | 16 | | - size | 16 x 512| 32 x 32| 32 x 32| 16 x 16| 8 x 8 | 8 x 8 | |Audio | 15-lyr |PCM 8-lyr | 10-lyr | 6-lyr | mono | mono | |RAM | 64K+68Kgx|128K+64Kgx| 72K+64Kgx| 8K+64Kgx| 2K+ 2Kgx| ? | | | (+2K Z80)| | | | | | |----------+------- ---+----------+----- -----+----------+--- -------+----------| |CD CPU/MHz| ? | |68000/12.5| 65802/16 | |CD RAM |430K VRAM | | 768K | CD= 64K | | | 64K SRAM | | | SCD=256K | | |7 mg DRAM | | | ACD= 2MB | |----------+----------+ +----------+----------+ | |||
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Mask of Destiny | Feb 18, 2005 | ||
| SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown! Don't believe everything you read on the interenet. Seeing as that table can't even get the amount of RAM (64KB not 72KB) in the Genesis right (and also fails to make mention of shadow/hilight mode). The author also doesn't seem to use a standard metric for the bitness of the CPU (like I said before, SNES uses a 16-bit cpu with an 8-bit bus and the Genesis has a 32-bit cpu with an 8-bit bus. Either the SNES has an 8-bit CPU and the Genesis a 16-bit or the Genesis has a 32-bit CPU and the SNES a 16-bit CPU). They also have the number of onscreen colors wrong for the Master System (should be 31 not 52). I can't say I really think much of it. A much more reliable source of information is here: http://cgfm2.emuviews.com/txt/pcetech.txt... Although it doesn't specifically mention a second CPU, it doesn't mention a second (and I don't think Charles would let such a glaring omission slip). However, if you read down you will see that the CPU speed is indeed 7.16MHz (or 1.78MHz in low-speed mode). You would not believe the amount of disinformation that exists on the net about older consoles. There are so many pages that say that the Sega CD use 500MB CD-ROMs. This is complete nonsense. They also list these different capacities (in minutes) of different sized video (i.e. the discs can hold xx minutes of full-screen video, let's say 20 minutes for the sake of argument). Even if you did make a video that used so much data per frame you could only fit 20 minutes of it on a CD, the Sega CD would still take at least an hour to play it because it has a 1x CD-ROM drive (it takes a little over an hour to read the data off of a full CD on a 1X CD-ROM drive).
Although this is the case now (though it's a horrible metric since all it's measuring is the width of the memory interface on the graphics chip), it wasn't really the case back then. The Genesis has an 8-bit interface to it's Video RAM. Is it an 8-bit console? I suppose it does have a 16-bit interface to Scroll RAM, and it has a 16-bit interface to the processor (which makes sense since the processor has a 16-bit bus). The Sega marketing said it had 16-bit graphics, but what this actually refers to is unclear. Even the N64 was called a 64-bit console because it had a 64-bit CPU, not that there was a whole lot of reason for it to have a 64-bit CPU. | ||||
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ExCyber | Feb 19, 2005 | |
| SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown! The HuC6260 shouldn't even be counted as a separate processor; it contains hardware that is onboard on most console VDPs. And no, there's no second HuC6280 hiding in the PC Engine (maybe in the SuperGrafX, but I don't think so). | |||
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emazur | Feb 19, 2005 | |
| SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown! I'll put in a few words about snes vs genesis (never owned a tg16 so I can't really comment, though I haven't been impressed with what I've seen of it). I won't get into technical specs here. Graphically, I'd say given the overall library of games, the snes had better graphics. But really, who owned or played the whole library games for either system? If you're like me you maybe aquired you're genesis and snes as a kid, and maybe got 6~8 games max per year. And like me maybe you read alot of videogame magazines and chose your games carefully. So let's say you bought mostly the gems for each respective system. Can you really say there's much difference graphically in zelda vs landstalker, contra vs gunstar heroes, PS4 vs FF6, Sonic 2 vs DKC, Streets of Rage 2 vs Final Fight? Mega Turrican vs Super Turrican? For me personally, there wasn't much difference. But there certainly were cases where the genesis lost out. Lacking hardware mode 7, you didn't see things like fzero on the genny. Mk1 and Mk2 lost bigtime graphically to the snes versions (though some stages of the genny MK2 looked as good or better than the snes version). But given the proper developer (i.e. NOT probe) things look a little more equal such as with Earthworm Jim, SF2 (ok, the snes looks better but not by much to me) or MK3 (which again lost out graphically to the snes version but at least this time it was just a matter of color pallette, unlike the previous 2 where they simply decided to lazily delete a bunch of graphics). The point I'm trying to make here is that while snes did have the graphical edge, Genesis owners should feel quite proud and satisfied with its graphical performance. Some people seem to think there's a huge difference, but I really don't think so. And games I never played but discovered after the 'death' of the system thanks to emulation makes me even prouder of the Genesis graphical capabilites (for me such games include Toy Story (line scrolling everywhere!), Vectorman 2, Red Zone, and that magical witch game whose name I forgot) On a side note, one game I never played on Genesis until emulation was Castlevania. I have to say I was very disappointed with the graphics compared to the snes castlevania, released years earlier. I expect more from Konami (cool games like RocketKnight Adventures for example. best bargain bin game I bought for the Genesis at $10). Soundwise, I think most people can agree the snes is the winner. Didn't have 'hissy fuzzy' digitized sound effects (damn you SF2!), and music instrument quality is better. Though for me the most memorable soundtracks of the 16 bit era were all Genesis games- these include Streets of Rage, Phantasy Star 2, Rocket Knight Adventures, and to a lesser extent Toejam & Earl and some of Sword of Vermillion's tracks. Othere recommended soundtracks (not necessarily Genesis exclusive) include Mega Turrican, Sonic 1 and 2, Landstalker, and Phantasy Star 4. Valuewise (not strictly speaking in dollars), both systems had their ups and downs. I was able to enjoy the Genesis for 2 years before the snes was released. I definititely consider that a big plus. When snes debuted, it cost $50 more, but unlike Genesis it had 2 controllers packed in and well as the a/v cable, while genesis had 1 controller and rf switch only. 3rd party games were typically $10 cheaper on Genesis due to Nintendo's more expensive licensing policy I believe. However, the snes from the beginning had six button controllers while sega was using 3 buttons. You could later get 6 button ones, but that'd cost ya. Subjectively, I liked the design of the Genesis alot better than Snes (don't like the Genesis 2 though, and not just b/c of design). Genesis games used nice plastic cases instead of snes cardboard. Sega also had the Sega CD for those who wanted it, allowing me to enjoy two of the best games ever- Lunar 1 and 2. Big value there. Though I have to say the 32x was a big waste. Gamewise (and isn't that where it really matters?) Genesis is my favorite thanks to the exclusive 1st party lineup. Sure snes had it's share too, the best one being Super Mario Kart IMO, but Sonic 1 and 2, Gunstar Heroes, Phantasy Star 2 and 4, Streets of Rage 2, Landstalker, and of course Shining Force 2 (and others) are exclusive Genesis games that stand out in my mind. Bottom line is that while the snes may have the edge in some departments, the Genesis was more than capable of holding its own with outstanding graphics, excellent music, good value, and most importantly- exclusive games. Given all this, it is my system of choice. Though snes is a fine system too. There, my longest post ever at SegaXtreme. Hope it was worth reading to somebody. It's not even all that long but it took me awhile to write it. | |||
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it290 | Feb 19, 2005 | |
| SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown! I just want to stand up for the Genesis MK ports. Probe did a great job on those, and MK1/2 are both more playable than the SNES versions. | |||
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Mask of Destiny | Feb 19, 2005 | ||
SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!
Some games had excellent sounding digitized samples (TJ&E 2 comes to mind). Since the Genesis only has a DAC and not a PCM chip for digitized sound, it's really up to the programmer of the sound driver to time everything right (otherwise it sounds crappy). It's also possible they just used really low sample rate digitized samples to save on space. | ||||
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emazur | Feb 20, 2005 | |
| SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown! Yes Mk1 and 2 were both better on Genesis, but graphically and soundwise the snes whupped ass for these games. If they were the same graphics as snes but with less rich color I'd be fine, but they stripped out animation frames, stripped out background graphics (such as the chains on the dead pool, or the floating wizard on the cloud stage). And they cut out tons and tons of samples that were present in the snes port. It was also too easy on Genesis. Even probe's 32x port was below the snes a/v wise, so that's why I'm annoyed with them. However, they did a fantastic job on the pc version, which is the best home version. But if I correctly recall the credits when you beat the game, the pc port developers were mostly quite different than the genny developers | |||
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