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SATURN - VGA /Possible?

croft - Dec 15, 2003

		croft		Dec 15, 2003
			Hi all, I was recently thinking of trying to get the Sega Saturn console running on a pc Monitor. I understand that the vertical/Horizontal sync are the main problems to get past. I have also seen the lm881 chip which apparently sorts this problem out. Has anybody tried to build sich a pcb to play the Saturn on a monitor.? Radiant silver gun would look amazing,And so would Guardian hereoes and Panzer dragoon.I have seen emulators available but thought the Console is the best path to take for correct speed etc. I have heard that the Saturn does have VGA internally but it cannot be executed(DAMN) . My dreamcast looks awsome in vga. Wonder if the developers ever made a VGA rom boot disk? THX, Ian.

		Scared0o0Rabbit		Dec 15, 2003
			for saturn on vga, you have 2 options, a cheap-o composite to vga box (which looks horrible) or the xrgb2+ which is very $$$ but looks real nice. Other than that, there are not really any other options.

		croft		Dec 15, 2003
			Hi Scared Rabbit, Thanks very much for the info. :thumbs-up: Will try the xrgb,They look really cool. Here in the uk we never see anything like that at all, we have mostly Scart nowdays There's still hope Thanks a lot, Ian

		Scared0o0Rabbit		Dec 16, 2003
			the xrgb2+ will not give you a picture that is any better than rgb in through scart on a tv. It's just a convenient way for people without access to rgb televisions/monitors to get the quality of rgb.

		ExCyber		Dec 16, 2003
			The LM1881 only solves the problem of systems that don't have sync output pins; it pulls the sync pulses out of a composite/luma/sync-on-green type signal and provides a standard sync. Units like the XRGB2 and cheapo VGA boxes are really the only way to fix this - you have to alter the video signal into something that the monitor will accept.

Scared0o0Rabbit

Dec 16, 2003

	
	
		
		
			you have to alter the video signal into something that the monitor will accept.

And as I said, if your tv can already accept rgb through scart, then using the xrgb2 isn't going to give you any real benefits.

Edit: and wtf is with the tall ass pictures you keep attaching to posts?

		mal		Dec 16, 2003
			What pictures?

		Scared0o0Rabbit		Dec 16, 2003
			I swear mal, you need to become a magician lol :lol:

Tagrineth

Dec 18, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by croft@Dec 15, 2003 @ 11:36 PM



 I have heard that the Saturn does have VGA internally but it cannot be executed(DAMN)  .



My dreamcast looks awsome in vga.

Just like all game consoles, it runs a VGA-compatible resolution, but I doubt the data is ever VGA compatible within the console.

AntiPasta

Dec 19, 2003

	
	
		
		
			but I doubt the data is ever VGA compatible within the console.

Is there such thing as 'VGA compatible data'? AFAIK, that's where the CRTC/ramdac is for, generating the (analog) signal for the monitor from the data in the video memory, regardless of how the video memory is organized.

		ExCyber		Dec 19, 2003
			I may be mistaken, but I think the VDP2 can be set up for VGA-compatible output. However IIRC it also requires combining BG layers similar to the "high-res" mode (or was it a hack? can't remember) on SNES, and the signals at the multi-out may have other frequency constrants due to an attached encoder/amplifier.

		Taelon		Jan 4, 2004
			Maybe the best way to go about this would simply be pulling the S-video output off the Saturn or even RGB signals, at the standard 15kHz TV scan rate, and hook up a line doubler to get non-interlaced video (640x480 @ 60Hz) that any PC monitor can sync to (as it'll be about a 31kHz horizontal scan rate).

		croft		Jan 4, 2004
			Hi Taelon Thanks for the post. Good point . I have read about line doublers in the past and they are quite rare here in the uk. I also read that the Sat can apparanly do these resolutions and higher if the software permitts. I was looking at games that may run in higher rez and Radiant silver gun could be on of these i think. The graphics in this game seem to be much higher than usual. the title screeen in perticular has an almost pc scren quality :huh If the game was running in higher rez mode would it be an ideal candidate for the VGA monitor? Also my Bro told me that he has a VGA patch for the dreamcast(so all games backed up run in vga etc). Was thinking that maybe somebody knows how to get this kind of patch running on the Saturn. I did read that the Sat does have VGA bulit within. This is one hard machine to crack. Thanks for the great info, deffinatly worth a try.

Tagrineth

Jan 4, 2004

	
	
		
		
			I was looking at games that may run in higher rez and Radiant silver gun could be on of these i think.



The graphics in this game seem to be much higher than usual.



the title screeen in perticular has an almost pc scren quality :huh

RSG does indeed use hi-res for the title screen and menus, but in-game it's a perfectly normal 'low-res'.

	
	
		
		
			Also my Bro told me that he has a VGA patch for the dreamcast(so all games backed up run in vga etc).



Was thinking that maybe somebody knows how to get this kind of patch running on the Saturn.

	
	
		
		
			I did read that the Sat does have VGA bulit within.



This is one hard machine to crack.

Dreamcast natively OUTPUTS a VGA-compatible signal. Saturn, however, only has a VGA-compatible signal somewhere WITHIN the system - before it reaches output, it's forcibly converted to an NTSC or PAL signal... it'd take some kind of internal modification to get a Saturn to output VGA.

		croft		Jan 4, 2004
			Hi Tagrineth Thanks for the info,Very usefull. The vga info for the Saturn is extrememly usefull. I guess its like you say,A case of modding the machine to output this format before it reaches the set pattern which the signal follows. I have searched the net for the internal workings of the Saturn and so far this site is the only place i have found info. Would be tottaly awsome if the Saturn was modded for VGA. I have 6 machines in front of me at the moment and any one can be experamented on. Radiant silvergun in hi res vga Or even panzer dragoon. Is it a case of hunting down the graphics processor within the machine and reverse enjaneering the signal path? I noticed the Dreamcast seems to relish VGA output,Almost as if the concole was desighned from day one with this in mind. last night i tried power stone 1 and 2 in VGa and they look totaly stunning. I guess with all the emulators that are going round some one somewhere must have apretty good idea on what makes the Saturn tick. It amazes that after all this time its still a reall tough box to crack. Thanks cery much.

antime

Jan 4, 2004

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by Tagrineth@Jan 5, 2004 @ 03:17 AM



 Saturn, however, only has a VGA-compatible signal somewhere WITHIN the system - before it reaches output, it's forcibly converted to an NTSC or PAL signal...

Are you sure about that? Since it can produce some kind of 31kHz output, but only at a high cost feature-wise I'm doubting it uses VGA internally (at least under normal circumstances).

		gameboy900		Jan 5, 2004
			I think more precisely it should be stated that internally Saturn IS CAPABLE of producing VGA compatible signals (as well as full HDTV as well). The problem is that no game ever setsup the VDP's in such a way for these modes to be in use. So even if you bypassed the video encoder chip you would still not get anything useful out of the system. Of course if you bypassed the encoder chip AND wrote your own software then you could make use of the extra video modes (with alot of restrictions I'm sure) but never in commercial games. Even ones that use hi-res mode (which is still only half of VGA anyway).

ExCyber

Jan 5, 2004

	
	
		
		
			Dreamcast natively OUTPUTS a VGA-compatible signal.

Dreamcast natively outputs RGB - whether or not the RGB output is at VGA-compatible frequencies depends on the configuration of the PVR RAMDAC. Not all games bother checking for the VGA cable and setting this up (notable ones that don't include KOF Dream Match 1999 and Bakuretsu Muteki Bangaiou), and the now-famous cable swap trick only works for the few games on which the IP.BIN header is incorrect and the game actually supports the cable.