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Manhunt-Related Killing?

racketboy - Jul 29, 2004

		racketboy	Jul 29, 2004
		Read It... I know gaming probably doesn't affect most people, but it disturbs me that so many parents let their kids play games like this.

		Adrock	Jul 29, 2004
		Game, the biggest retailer in the UK, has taken Manhunt off the shelf and i got a feeling they wont be selling it again. I was working at my local Game branch today when we got the email telling us to take them off sale and to not accept them for part exchanges. The media are calling for all violent games to be banned, which i personally dont think is the best way to go about things, clearly the person who did it was mentally unstable. I agree with you too racketboy, parents shouldnt allow kids to play these games at all.

		racketboy	Jul 29, 2004
		I don't necessarily have a problem with them selling them (even though it's not my cup of tea), but I hate it every time I go the game store and see some parent with his 8 year old buying some rated-M game. From their conversation, I can tell the kid is going to be playing it. And the clerk tries explaining the M-rated content to the parent, but they don't care.

		Quadriflax	Jul 29, 2004
		I can't really say anything that hasn't been said before. But I can't understand how people can blame violent media for this stuff when there are millions exposed to it daily, but only a tiny, tiny fraction of people actually act these things out. Anyone with half a brain can see that this is something beyond the norm. Yes, maybe people who play these kinds of games or watch violent movies etc are more violent/angry than those who don't (and a number of studies have suggested this to be so). But these individuals who take it to the extreme are but a minority of that subset. An oddity. Just like any other mentally disturbed individual who acts out like this. I don't see anyone putting a ban on God when someone butchers his/her family because he thought the good Lord told him/her to. It's the same damn thing. It's not the rise of violent media that's to blame. It's the decline of the family structure and adequate discipline. But we all know that, so, I'm just ranting, I guess.

		racketboy	Jul 29, 2004
		although just because somebody didn't go out and kill somebody doesn't mean it didn't affect them. I really doubt 12-year-olds became a better person by playing Manhunt and GTA.

		Dud	Jul 29, 2004
		I personally think that movies and videogames influence people; for example I bought a pair of shoes subconsciously because a kick-ass character from a movie was wearing similar shoes. I didn't realize it until I re-watched the movie. However it is inconceivable to me how people go right to the violent game and don't look at the mental state of that kid. It is obvious that there is something wrong with him. How many people have played Manhunt and have not brutally slain somebody? Oh, but know one cares about that. This scapegoating of videogames and movies that is so popular in the media and concerned parent groups is a steaming pile of horse shit. Whether he has played Manhunt or GTA or whatever is irrelevant; that game disc didn't kill that boy, HE did. It's no one or nothing's fault, but his. EDIT: Also, I don't particularly enjoy Rockstar/Take Two's games, but they still deserve to be on store shelves.

		racketboy	Jul 29, 2004
		ok forget the killing incedent... why are these kids playing these games? Here's my hunch... Some cool kid at school gets it and talks about how great it is. So other kids want to be cool to and beg their parents to get it. Parents don't have the balls to say no, so they get it for them. Or they are just stupid and don't care. Kid plays it every waking hour when their not at school....

		schi0249	Jul 29, 2004
		I have to agree with Racketboy. Some things just aren't meant for children. Do I think censorship goes to far in America?? Yes, it does. But at the same time; games like GTA, Manhunt don't belong in the hands of children.

Dud

Jul 29, 2004

Originally posted by racketboy@Jul 29, 2004 @ 04:11 PM

ok forget the killing incedent...

why are these kids playing these games?

Here's my hunch...

Some cool kid at school gets it and talks about how great it is.

So other kids want to be cool to and beg their parents to get it.

Parents don't have the balls to say no, so they get it for them. Or they are just stupid and don't care.

Kid plays it every waking hour when their not at school....

Sadly, that's probably true, in many cases. However the article said the killer was 17, this was just an isolated incident with a mentally disturbed person. No one under 13-14 should be playing these games though.

This is why I think the ESRB rating system is ignored and not taken even remotely seriously:

Mainly because, no one under 17 being able to play M rated games is completely unrealistic. (Note that I'm not talking about these 8 year old kids playing GTA anymore that is just ridiculous) Statistically most american teenagers have experienced the type of things in M rated games in some form, excluding the ultraviolence of course. Some horny punk that has sex with multiple females and wakes up with a hangover every Sunday in a pile of vommit is not going to be affected by the sexual content in GTA. Believe it or not about half the kids around here are like that. Two, M-rated games like Devil May Cry and Vice City are not on the same level context-wise. Devil May Cry is violent, but completely fantasy-based and there is no psychological element to the violence like in Manhunt, but the stupid ratings don't reflect that.

Same goes for the MPAA ratings for movies, I don't even pay attention to those anymore, any movie that's a little too risque to be PG-13 is rated R and the NC-17 is never used. The R rating is so open-ended it lost all meaning. Even if an occasional movie gets an NC-17 it's not much different than an R (If you've ever seen the NC-17 version of Kill Bill Vol.1 vs. the R rated version, they're not much different) What they need to do is change R to R-15 and change NC-17 to R-18 like the Japanese rating system.

Quadriflax

Jul 29, 2004

Originally posted by racketboy@Jul 29, 2004 @ 03:51 PM

although just because somebody didn't go out and kill somebody doesn't mean it didn't affect them.

I really doubt 12-year-olds became a better person by playing Manhunt and GTA.

Read my post again. I agree, it does effect people, I never said anything to oppose that. Especially children since they're so impressionable. Regardless of our shared belief that kids shouldn't be playing games or watching movies clearly meant for adults, they do. But out of the millions that do, how many have gone on rampages and killed people? And what's to say it was the video games fault? There's obviously something wrong with them to begin with, and it isn't necessaraly even the video game that brings it out. To automatically leap to that conclusion is insane.

Besides, doesn't the article say this kid is 17? 17?! He's not 6, for crying out loud. I hardly call him a kid. Even then, it's still besides the point. He's one of millions who play the same stupid game, but one of only a handful that actually act these things out. That's my point.

racketboy

Jul 29, 2004

Originally posted by Quadriflax@Jul 29, 2004 @ 09:52 PM

Read my post again. I agree, it does effect people, I never said anything to oppose that. Especially children since they're so impressionable. Regardless of our shared belief that kids shouldn't be playing games or watching movies clearly meant for adults, they do. But out of the millions that do, how many have gone on rampages and killed people? And what's to say it was the video games fault? There's obviously something wrong with them to begin with, and it isn't necessaraly even the video game that brings it out. To automatically leap to that conclusion is insane.

Besides, doesn't the article say this kid is 17? 17?! He's not 6, for crying out loud. I hardly call him a kid. Even then, it's still besides the point. He's one of millions who play the same stupid game, but one of only a handful that actually act these things out. That's my point.

I wasn't arguing with you necessarily

I was just posting something else that popped in my head

And yeah, I realize the guy was 17, but I do know kids personally that are like 10 that play these games constantly. And of course their parents don't care.

racketboy

Jul 29, 2004

Originally posted by mountaindud@Jul 29, 2004 @ 09:47 PM

Mainly because, no one under 17 being able to play M rated games is completely unrealistic. (Note that I'm not talking about these 8 year old kids playing GTA anymore that is just ridiculous) Statistically most american teenagers have experienced the type of things in M rated games in some form, excluding the ultraviolence of course. Some horny punk that has sex with multiple females and wakes up with a hangover every Sunday in a pile of vommit is not going to be affected by the sexual content in GTA. Believe it or not about half the kids around here are like that. Two, M-rated games like Devil May Cry and Vice City are not on the same level context-wise. Devil May Cry is violent, but completely fantasy-based and there is no psychological element to the violence like in Manhunt, but the stupid ratings don't reflect that.

Same goes for the MPAA ratings for movies, I don't even pay attention to those anymore, any movie that's a little too risque to be PG-13 is rated R and the NC-17 is never used. The R rating is so open-ended it lost all meaning. Even if an occasional movie gets an NC-17 it's not much different than an R (If you've ever seen the NC-17 version of Kill Bill Vol.1 vs. the R rated version, they're not much different) What they need to do is change R to R-15 and change NC-17 to R-18 like the Japanese rating system.

I didn't realize DMC was rated M.

What I also find interesting is stores (even Walmarts sometimes) have demos of rated-M games (not GTA or Manhunt though) out for playing. I still 4-foot tall kids playing FPSs in the stores every now and then.

		Arakon	Jul 29, 2004
		FYI, Manhunt was forbidden in germany just a few days ago. selling, offering it in any way at all is illegal. you may own it if you already have it, but not even so much as show it to friends. purchasing it is also illegal. now while the game it pretty brutal, I've seen worse.. and I think it's ridiculous to forbid a game completely.. make it available only to adults, alright.. but deciding for the entire country what they may and may not play is pretty fucked. the last game that happened to was MK 1+2, btw.

		Quadriflax	Jul 29, 2004
		Haven't a couple of games been banned from Australia as well? I guess there are still some things the US still has right... for now.

Alexvrb

Jul 29, 2004

Originally posted by Arakon+Jul 30, 2004 @ 01:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Arakon @ Jul 30, 2004 @ 01:16 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> FYI, Manhunt was forbidden in germany just a few days ago.

selling, offering it in any way at all is illegal. you may own it if you already have it, but not even so much as show it to friends.

purchasing it is also illegal.

[/b]

Are you serious? Satanic cults recieve less negative attention...

<!--QuoteBegin-A
rakon

now while the game it pretty brutal, I've seen worse.. and I think it's ridiculous to forbid a game completely.. make it available only to adults, alright.. but deciding for the entire country what they may and may not play is pretty fucked. the last game that happened to was MK 1+2, btw.[/quote]I agree. Who can buy it should be restricted, and if parents don't give a damn, oh well.

Curtis

Jul 29, 2004

Originally posted by Quadriflax@Jul 29, 2004 @ 02:10 PM

Haven't a couple of games been banned from Australia as well? I guess there are still some things the US still has right... for now.

Not for a while. Games do tend to get edited here sometimes. For example, the Candy Suxx mission was removed from Vice City to meet local regulations (we have no game rating beyond MA15+), and I think Ghost Recon was another game to get a bit of a chop. It's odd, because Manhunt was released here in an uncut, unrestricted version yet banned outright in New Zealand.

Politicians. :huh

		stack99	Jul 29, 2004
		Parents need to be agressively involved more and more with the games their children play, its sad that parents don't do this, and then blame the videogame, or the videogame makers, when the responsibility is on them... no one else.

		The Man	Jul 30, 2004
		No matter what is said, kids will always find a way to play it, get it. Parents are responsible in the fact that they let their kids do what they please. Hell I got away with a copy of mk2, when my mom thought and had said no to it, but I traded 3 carts for it. Yes now i know what i did was wrong, but also told my parents why they didn't take away my snes. Making a point is also part of the problem, some parents don't want to make their kids upset in public places and cause fits like in wal-mart. happens alot If a kid can't tell reality from fantasy then some parents should start questioning if their kids should even play M rated games.

		mal	Jul 30, 2004
		I'd really appreciate it if we could drop the "parents need to do this" and "parents don't do that" crap. Not all parents are like that. Gross generalisations from either side of this arguement don't help one bit.

		lordofduct	Jul 30, 2004
		yeah. and that editor sucks at writing. I mean I know that im not the best here on the forums but thats another dealy. When you write something for a paper or editorial. Come on. "remanded" what the fuck. but then you use "harrowing". I see that someone depends on his thesaraus over there. And how can you be TOO harrowing. can I bee TOO thieving or killing. People also still don't know how to use punctuation either. And if anyone again wants to comment on my own writing, Ill just show you some of my real writing for class or work. You use proper english there, why waste the time here.