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gamepad mod idea

Merick - Dec 10, 2005

		Merick	Dec 10, 2005
		Most of the games I play are on console systems, and because of that I am more comfortable using a gamepad than keyboard-mouse. When I install a pc game (like Half-Life 2) I usually end up looking for info on how to set the controls to my psx style gamepad. If I post on a website asking for help, the first reply is almost always somthing like "just use the keyboard and mouse, it's better" I will admit, it is much easier to aim with a mouse than an analog control stick, but for me it's really akward to have to jump around on the keyboard to go between movement keys and weapon change keys and etc. so I often find myself with a gamepad in one hand and the mouse in the other. And this is where I got my idea: build a psx style gamepad but replace the right side analog control stick with either a trackball or a touchpad. I know that some people have done hack jobs to make controllers for arcade style emulator cabinets, can anyone tell me how easy/hard it would be to build something like this?

		Mask of Destiny	Dec 11, 2005
		I will admit, it is much easier to aim with a mouse than an analog control stick, but for me it's really akward to have to jump around on the keyboard to go between movement keys and weapon change keys and etc. To me the obvious thing to do here would be to remap the keys so you don't have to move your hands as much. Use the weapon cycle keys instead of the individual number keys (or use the scroll wheel to do the same thing). Perhaps picking up something like the Belkin Nostromo and/or a mouse with more buttons would help. Anyway, if you do want to go through with your little hackjob I would probably avoud a trackpad. They suck for gaming (of course I think they just suck in general). I find thumb-operated trackballs to be awkward for games as well, though I'm quite fond of index finger-operated ones. How hard it will be depends on how clean of a job you want to do and how the gamepad is put together. The easiest way would be to find a gamepad that uses a separate circuit board for the left and right halves of the controller. Clip the wires going to the right half, saw the gamepad case in half and attach the trackball with some epoxy. Plug both cables into your PC and you're done. If you want something cleaner than that, then it's more complicated.

		it290	Dec 11, 2005
		Well, I have seen a few joysticks like this one: http://www.tweak3d.net/reviews/madcatz/pantherxl/... Seems decent for FPS games, of course if you're looking for a gamepad it may not be up your alley. I've also seen a weird 'orb' type controller for PSX that was intended for a certain game, some Descent-type thing. Can't remember the name, but that could be interesting to play around with. I do agree with Mask of Destiny on this one though, you're better off just remapping the keys and/or getting a mouse with more buttons. I find that using the scrollwheel works fine for changing weapons in most FPS games, and for the games where more keys are needed it's usually easy to locate a few that can be easily reached. For example, I tend to bump my movement keys over one row - from WASD to ESDF. That way my left hand is in its normal typing configuration, and I can access the Q and A keys with my pinky at any time, whereas with the WASD config that finger would be sitting on the caps lock key (which usually can only be bound as a toggle).

		Merick	Dec 11, 2005
		I have tried re-mapping the keys, but no matter what config I try out my reaction time is still slower than with a gamepad

		lordofduct	Dec 12, 2005
		I totally agree with the keyboard problem. I don't mind the mouse for FPS (although I just despise the genre on its own), but as for a keyboard it sucks gonads for gaming. I freaking hate it with a passion! BUT I think a thumb pad put into a psx style controller would really be annoying. Have you ever played a game with a thumb pad? it isn't fun at all! Let alone a thumb pad that is now on a controller that isn't steady on a solid surface, but instead is in your hands moving all over the place! What I think would be a good cross ground is to make a one handed controller (kinda like the new Revolution controller, just with more functions... shit and if you could put that motion sensor in, problem solved!) Anyways, a one handed controler for moving and and changing weapons and the sort. And still have a mouse for everything else. There are those gamer pads that do a similar function and are already premapped and shit... but they tend to still use the keyboard idea behind it just fewer keys like a numpad... and well, keyboard keys aren't highly reactive in my opinion. The position of your fingers isn't comfortable for gameplay and playing consoles, I am used to a lot of thumb use... not pointer and middle finger use. Probably why I hate PSX controllers so much... I don't have a lot of coordination with my pointer fingers and they stick 4 freaking L and R buttons up there!

		it290	Dec 12, 2005
		keyboard keys aren't highly reactive in my opinion It doesn't get any better than a buckle switch, boy. Unless you're talking about some Seimitsu buttons or something.

		lordofduct	Dec 12, 2005
		Originally posted by it290@Mon, 2005-12-12 @ 03:14 AM It doesn't get any better than a buckle switch, boy. Unless you're talking about some Seimitsu buttons or something. [post=142436]Quoted post[/post] Your referring to the old style spring keys of the IBM kind right? How hard is it to find those now? Hard... it's all these softkey keyboards. They suck.

		mtxblau	Dec 12, 2005
		I thought they made something like that already: http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage...oduct... I'm pretty sure it's not premapped - I think it follows the wsad key formation. That, and didn't the Dreamcast have that as well? Made for QIIIA and Unreal? It was a joystick with a huge trackball. Either for lefties or righties. By Mad Catz?

		ExCyber	Dec 12, 2005
		Originally posted by lordofduct Your referring to the old style spring keys of the IBM kind right? How hard is it to find those now? Hard... Uh, what...? It's not cheap, but you won't have to replace it every couple of years like a cheapass keyboard.

		lordofduct	Dec 12, 2005
		Yeah... they aren't in large supply. You go through companies you've never heard of and pay out the ass for them. That seems kinda hard to me. and MTXBlau, yeah those are the things I'm talking about. But it still has keys on it and it isn't handheld.

		ExCyber	Dec 12, 2005
		Originally posted by lordofduct+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lordofduct)</div><div class='quotemain'>companies you've never heard of[/b] Companies you've never heard of are who actually manufacture those cheapass keyboards before a major brand name is slapped on them. Unicomp actually has a reputation, even if it's not in the PC sphere (they're a major supplier of cash register systems/components), and the design they sell is very close to the actual IBM design (IIRC they bought IBM's keyboard division and rights to all the patents etc). <!--QuoteBegin-l ordofduct and pay out the ass[/quote]Well, that's what you get when you want a keyboard that actually has metal in it.

		lordofduct	Dec 12, 2005
		I know what you mean (and I actually want one bad and have since our last conversation about them about 7 months ago). But still... its a keyboard... for gaming. Don't likey, nope. But then I don't game anymore.

		Merick	Dec 14, 2005
		hmm... maybe I'll try that belkin thing

		Mask of Destiny	Dec 14, 2005
		The Belkin Nostromo isn't bad. The spacebar sucks, but other than that it's not a bad device. Personally I'm a fan of the Benq x700 series keyboards. They use a scissor switch mechanism similar to what IBM uses (well Lenovo now) in their Thinkpad keyboards, but with a somewhat deeper throw. Has a very good feel to it. My only complaint is that they don't have any XP x64 drivers for it.

		it290	Dec 14, 2005
		Never use a keyboard that requires a driver.     That, and didn't the Dreamcast have that as well? Made for QIIIA and Unreal? It was a joystick with a huge trackball. Either for lefties or righties. By Mad Catz? That was the Panther XL I posted up above, they also made it for DC.

		Mask of Destiny	Dec 14, 2005
		Originally posted by it290@Wed, 2005-12-14 @ 10:59 PM Never use a keyboard that requires a driver. Well basic keyboard functionality doesn't require a driver. However it has some extra user definable keys and a scroll wheel which aren't covered by the HID spec and thus require a driver.