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| tsumake - Aug 29, 2005 |
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Ok fine - I would presume you would be better off reading a book if your looking for stories. And this isn't directed at you, VertigoXX, but rather the forum as a whole.  |
Jedi Master Thrash | Aug 30, 2005 | |
| The only games of that type (adventure/rpg, i.e. non-shooter/arcade) I played were Space Quest I and Star Trek 25th Anniversary, both on my 386 PC some 10-15 years ago. I found both really fun. But I've never really played any adventure games since then. Not quite enough time to invest in them as I use to. But neither of those games had any kind of leveling up. And Space Quest didn't have any fighting. It was all about puzzles and strategy. And it was rewarding to advance to the new stages and levels because of the interesting or humerous graphics and situations and new puzzles to solve. I'm sort of playing Champions, Return To Arms with my friend. The level-upping was fun. But it was just too slow. You have to fight for an hour just to up one level, and then you just get one point which only raises one power by some meager amount like 3%. So after about 2 days of that I got anxious for more power so he just popped in the code to let us level up to the max. The real fun part is just the "shooter" part (since I have a bow, and using the analog stick to aim the bow and rapid-firing and shoot is reminiscent of old-school shooters). The story would be more fun if it used anime-cutscenes instead of the lame 3D generated character animation. And all that "plane of ill omen" stuff seems so hackneyed. JMT. | |||
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ExCyber | Aug 30, 2005 | |
| For RPGs that require any leveling, part of the fun/challenge is to figure out what the best way to do it is. Most console RPGs I can recall haven't really required me to level up all that much unless I cheese my way through a large chunk of the game (excessive running + crazy tactics sort of stuff, just staying a step ahead of death, heh). I used to have a habit of doing this on FF4 from about Mt. Ordeals to the return to Baron castle whereupon I'd get slaughtered by Beigan, but that seems to be fixed now... | |||
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tsumake | Aug 30, 2005 | |
| CrazyGoon, There's quite a marked distinction between and computer and console RPGs. Computer RPGs more often than not (that is until recently) feature much more complex gameplay features, a more non-linear storyline, and a greater emphasis on exploration over level grinding. Whether it's the latest "Might and Magic" or Fallout, these games offer a greater level of depth. Though, I am very well aware of the shortcomings of computer RPGs. I don't like the ideas of spending hours distributing stat points just to get the perfect thief, or rolling the dice endlessly for killer stats. I think the term RPG is used very liberally. In my mind the traditional RPG is Dungeons and Dragons, and everyone knows that D&D requires a Dungeon Master and couple other people in order to play and enjoy. There is actually "role playing" in the game in that you act out your characters. The stats/experience point element was created to give a tangible result of your actions in the gameworld. Leveling up was to show you that you were becoming more experienced in the world you were participating in. While computer and console RPGs have these facets, nothing can compare to playing with other people. Alas, we complain about level grinding because we do believe that there is compelling material in the games. And while I agree that overall stories for console RPGs are underwhelming, even Final Fantasy, what gives them appeal and makes them interesting are the scope of the narrative, and in particular the themes and topics discussed in the game. But, in order to appreciate these aspects, we all go through level grinding into to experience it. | |||
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ExCyber | Aug 30, 2005 | |
| Actually, I spent some time thinking about this lately with regard to Jade Empire. To me, the "computer RPG" vs. "console RPG" distinction is really a "Western RPG" vs "Japanese RPG" distinction, and I think the key difference between the two is that in the typical Japanese RPG, your character belongs to the story first and to the player second. In Western RPGs it's precisely the opposite - you are pretty much given free reign to do whatever you want, even if it's highly stupid and has nothing to do with the plot. There's probably a connection to the more general notions of individualism and self-determination here, but that may be reading too much into it. I've found that I don't get a lot of enjoyment out of most Western-style RPGs (the only ones I can think of playing that didn't immediately bore me to death are the Buck Rogers PC RPGs and Morrowind), but this is probably just a matter of personal preference. | |||
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CrazyGoon | Aug 30, 2005 | ||
Indeed. Although, it shouldn't... <!--QuoteBegin-t sumake@Tue, 2005-08-30 @ 05:45 PM There's quite a marked distinction between and computer and console RPGs. Computer RPGs more often than not (that is until recently) feature much more complex gameplay features, a more non-linear storyline, and a greater emphasis on exploration over level grinding. Whether it's the latest "Might and Magic" or Fallout, these games offer a greater level of depth. [post=138943]Quoted post[/post] [/quote] So a Final Fantasy game developed for the PC features much more complex gameplay features, a more non-linear storyline, and a greater emphasis on exploration over level grinding? The point I'm arguing isn't over "console RPGs vs. computer RPGs"; whether you like one or the other matters not to me. Rather, it's over the fact you have made an improper assertion that computer RPGs are different from console RPGs. I still don't think you understand where I'm coming from, so I'll add more. When you express "more often than not, computer RPGs feature this, whereas console RPGs feature that", you lead the reader to assume that naturally, computer RPGs differ from console RPGs. Now that's a rather large claim. What's to stop a developer from featuring this (as opposed to that) for a console? The point I'm making is that the platform of which the game was developed for isn't a factor to be used to determine what the game is to encompass. When you say "Computer RPGs", not only do you refer to each and every computer RPG created, but you also include computer RPGs that have yet to be developed. This is where your statement of "more often than not, computer RPGs feature this, whereas console RPGs feature that" means more than you probably want it to mean. It's incredibly bold to state such a thing which encompases RPGs that have not even been developed yet, let alone each and every computer RPG developed. This is why I tossed in that example of FF for PC. What you have done is disguised this "let's talk about RPGs" thread, with this console RPG vs. computer RPG façade. Like I said in my first post - people have issues with RPGs, which is why these threads are quite popular. Though, my final point I was hinting at when I said that, was that RPGs contain issues, which if they didn't have them, I would imagine many threads such as this one would cease to exist. As I said, these issues are the reason why I'm always debating on the topic. And these issues need to be ironed out, for this god-forsakenly tortured genre to rest in peace. | ||||
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emazur | Aug 31, 2005 | |
| Spending hours leveling up sucks. I might have tolerated that crap during my younger years, but any game that requires me to do it now, I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Anyone who wants a really good traditional rpg without the crap should check out Suikoden 1 and 2 on psx. | |||
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tsumake | Aug 31, 2005 | ||
Aren't you taking this a bit personally? This isn't an academic discussion at all, rather I'm just sharing my thoughts and opinions with fellow SXers. If you want to be academic, wait twenty years. Game Studies is still in its infancy. If you want to "be in the know" about it, here's the website: www.gamestudies.org.... I don't talk about the macroscopic elements of RPGs because what concerned me enough to start this post was some of the smaller details that pertain to the genre. I compare it to computer RPGs because in the States, both subgenres have an audience. And I like both computer and console RPGs. | ||||
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lordofduct | Aug 31, 2005 | |
| If I remember correctly me and Crazygoon got in a very heated debate about this... So I can see why he has his lengthy diatribe about it. | |||
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mal | Aug 31, 2005 | |
| What, he needs to get out more? | |||
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CrazyGoon | Aug 31, 2005 | |
| I was mearly opening doors of discussion. If no one wants to talk with me about it, then that's fine. Maybe next time... | |||
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KuKzz | Sep 3, 2005 | |
| Play Lunar 1 or 2 - these games are made with optimisation of boss's strengh to player's level (you don't have to level up that much). Also there is some fun in going thruogh enemy's hordes with one overleveled character, killing them all without taking damage (Fire Emblem for example)  | |||
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