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Commercial GiriGiri now Abandonware.

fivefeet8 - Jul 6, 2004

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		fivefeet8		Jul 6, 2004
			http://www.emufanatics.com/news.php?func=view&id=4... Now we can legally use it.

		antime		Jul 7, 2004
			How nice to see "fans" killing commercial projects.

		Runik		Jul 7, 2004
			And I'm not even sure that we (saturn emu authors) could use his help as he must have signed a NDA ...

		Pearl Jammzz		Jul 7, 2004
			Wouldn't of lasted anyways.....

		barnito		Jul 7, 2004
			What could possibly be better then the GiriGiri emulator for running Saturn games? How about a Windows XP optimized version that is smaller, faster and resource optimized. It has a partially rewritten core, updated code, improved sound, new tools, and updated documentation. Further, it now comes with its own installer and all the files needed to run it. All you have to do is supply the game. Grab it here: www.barnitos.net/girihelp... Readme + Changelog: www.barnitos.net/girihelp/readme.txt... Legal Disclaimer: www.barnitos.net/girihelp/legal.txt...

		ExCyber		Jul 7, 2004
			I'm not a lawyer, but I can say with some confidence that GiriGiri is probably still under copyright, whether held by Sega, Sammy, or Shinya Miyamoto himself. In today's world, about the only way for a legitimate copyright to become invalid is for the holder to explicitly and unambiguously announce that the work has been placed in the public domain. The Berne Convention requires all signatories - which includes virtually all industrialized nations except Taiwan - to provide a minimum copyright term of 50 years, without the requirement of registration or renewal. Until someone produces a formal, specific announcement regarding GiriGiri's status, it should be assumed to still be illegal to distribute.

		barnito		Jul 7, 2004
			I am done argueing this point, it is there in black and white, plain as day. We are now going to decrypt the exe and make it an open source project.... Barnito

		Curtis		Jul 7, 2004
			Well that's nice, but err...don't you think "Sandi" from Sega tech support might not be the person with all the facts? The email does conclude with "All Sega systems and Games remain protected." I see no reason why a piece of software wouldn't be regarded as a system, especially when it's purpose it to act like a specific system. Just sayin'...

		barnito		Jul 7, 2004
			Emulators are LEGAL!!!!!!! we just aren't allowed to distribute the BIOS, that is what she meant by the system being protected. They said they would not support us, but said as plain as day that the copyright is expired, and they have no interest in it....... Barnito

ExCyber

Jul 7, 2004

	
	
		
		
			The email does conclude with



"All Sega systems and Games remain protected."

More importantly, the email begins with instructions for contacting the legal department, who might have a bit more to say about the matter.

	
	
		
		
			Emulators are LEGAL!!!!!!!

Yes, generally they are. If we thought otherwise you probably wouldn't see news posts here about every new Saturnin / Satourne / Yabause development.

	
	
		
		
			They said they would not support us, but said as plain as day that the copyright is expired, and they have no interest in it

As mentioned above, "they" did not say anything, as a tech support representative almost certainly has no authority to make legal statements on behalf of the company. And even if that was the case, it's unclear whether or not Shinya Miyamoto still holds the copyright to GiriGiri.

		racketboy		Jul 7, 2004
			if the copyright is expired, the copyright is expired.

		ExCyber		Jul 7, 2004
			Copyrights don't expire in a year or two. As I mentioned above, the Berne Convention treaty mandates a term of 50 years after the death of the author, or 50 years from publication for pseudonymous/anonymous works. And in practice the term is typically much longer.

		racketboy		Jul 7, 2004
			that's what I thought, but why did Sega say it was dead?

		ExCyber		Jul 7, 2004
			It's probably dead as far as Sega supporting it, but that's not the same thing as the copyright expiring, especially since Sega is not the original copyright holder.

		Runik		Jul 7, 2004
			:agree Ex-Cyber, you summarized pretty much everything I wanted to say And another thing : I'm not sure that sources created using reverse engineering would be useful ...

		SamIAm		Jul 7, 2004
			I don't know what the real story is, but AFAIK if Sega bought the copyright to Giri Giri, then its theirs to do as they please with. If that's the case, then unless they either give or sell it back to the original owner, it's very likely that Giri Giri will become abandonware.

ExCyber

Jul 7, 2004

	
	
		
		
			AFAIK if Sega bought the copyright to Giri Giri, then its theirs to do as they please with

Considering that there was talk of renewing it that soon, they probably had a license from Shinya Miyamoto rather than actually holding the copyright.

racketboy

Jul 7, 2004

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by ExCyber@Jul 7, 2004 @ 03:11 PM



 It's probably dead as far as Sega supporting it, but that's not the same thing as the copyright expiring, especially since Sega is not the original copyright holder.

again, from this wording it sounds like the copyright expired:

	
	
		
		
			After he left the project and Sega took over, the emulator was short lived. Sega took over the copyrights up to 2003 and never renewed them after the theft of the unlock code to the commercial release and the project was canned.

M3d10n

Jul 7, 2004

I don't recall seeing any major enhancements on reverse-enginereed software, mainly in emulators. Hacked versions of VGS could play FF9, but only because the game itself had been designed to fudge VGS itself, and they could defeat such thing without much problems.

I take it's very hard to actually add unemulated features, improve and fix incomplete ones, or replace features altogether with plain disassembled code, without breaking the original software altogether.

	
	
		
		
			How about a Windows XP optimized version that is smaller, faster and resource optimized. It has a partially rewritten core, updated code, improved sound, new tools, and updated documentation. Further, it now comes with its own installer and all the files needed to run it.



All you have to do is supply the game.

Improved sound? Where? I've been playing it and all sound bugs are still there. I noticed no difference between the new and the old hack. Also, weren't the XP "optimizations" (or I'd say "bug fix", because there were compatibility bugs that made it run *really* slow under XP) part of the path done by Sega a while ago? I have yet to try it on XP, but on my W2K machine it performed exactly the same as the old hack, only with a nice frontend, so I don't have to fiddle with the .INI files.

Call me again when you get Grandia to get past the title screen, or at least add bilinear filtering, then I'll praise ya.

It would help if you actually listed the "code updates". That kind of stuff is too important to be grouped in a changes list.

		Runik		Jul 7, 2004
			How can a tech support from Sega talk about legal concerns ? In the original mail 'Sandi' recommands to contact the legal department, and it sounds like she doesn't speak on the behalf of the company, but on her own ... Furthermore I know there are communications problems between SOA and SOJ, and I would like to hear from SOJ as I think they are the original copyright holder ...

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