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Can some Saturn games just not be swapped?

Bootnut - Feb 25, 2003

		Bootnut	Feb 25, 2003
		I've burned a number of Saturn games lately to play on my Model 2 saturn. A couple at first wouldn't swap, never did get them to work. Once I got a few more games that did work, I learned to swap fairly easily and was successful with the help of my 8Meg cartridge. I bought some new CDRs recently (Memorex), and I've noticed that only about half of the games want to work, even though I've been burning at 4X speed. I tested with 2 other brands of CDRs on one of the games that wouldn't work. Those 2 copies also did not work, so perhaps it's not the CDR or the burn itself. (The game was Sonic Jam, also tried The Last Bronx later) I tested the discs (that didn't work) with the latest version of SSF, and they did work. Now I don't know what to think. Is it possible that some games just don't swap properly. or need different timing for the swap? I'm just hoping the games will work when I get a modboard. I've read the swapping faqs and the boards, but I can't figure this out. Any ideas? Thanks Bootnut

		IBarracudaI	Feb 25, 2003
		humm... what exactly happens?? Are you patching the isos for your saturn's country code?? (that "8meg" cart may not have the converter ability...)

		Bootnut	Feb 25, 2003
		I am patching the games for USA/Canada, all except one, which did work, proving the cart does do country conversion. 8) When I try swapping the games that don't work, the blue sega logo comes up, and nothing happens after that. In the FAQs, that suggests improper timing of the swap. Ok, so I try without the cart so I can time things better, be more in control. No matter what combination of timings I try, it either does the same thing or doesn't work at all (disc not suitable error, recognized as an audio cd only). 2 games, Street Fighter Collection and Saturn Bomberman have loaded a couple of times (after many swap tries without the cartridge in) but I can no longer get them to work. This might suggest a slowly dieing laser/cd unit, but then why do all the working discs work every time? One other thing I thought of was Analog pad incompatibility.. so I tested with the stock pad plugged in only. Same results. Frustrating! heh Bootnut

		IBarracudaI	Feb 26, 2003
		Try using this swap technique... (without the cart)... 1 - Power on your saturn with the copied cd inserted... 2 - When the copied cd COMPLETELY stops rotating (on the cd-player screen...) , swap for an original cd... 3 - Press RESET... the saturn will read the ring from the original cd... when the cd speeds up (after reading the ring), re-insert the copied cd... I've found this method to be *100%* accurate... as it doesn't require so much timing in the 2nd (final) swap...

		Bootnut	Feb 26, 2003
		Excellent! Thanks for the alternate swap technique! This worked on *EVERY* game that I could not get to run before! Too bad I can't do it with the ram cart, because I'll run out of system nvram very fast! heh. I noticed that the second (final) swap needs to be done IMMEDIATELY after the disc speeds up, and I find it hard to be that fast. Right now, after about an hour and a number of games later, I'm up to about 70% success. It's easy to tell right away if it wasn't fast enough, so that's ok. Thanks again, I now have faith in my copies! heh Bootnut

		IBarracudaI	Feb 26, 2003
		Congratulations... my job is done here...

		MasterAkumaMatata	Mar 18, 2003
		Have you ever applied your swap technique on Destruction Derby (JAP)? :devil

		IBarracudaI	Mar 18, 2003
		Originally posted by MasterAkumaMatata@Mar 18, 2003 @ 08:33 AM Have you ever applied your swap technique on Destruction Derby (JAP)? :devil me? I only have the PAL version... and never tried it... but I don't see why it won't work... Are you having any toubles??

		AntiPasta	Mar 18, 2003
		hey Barracuda, thanks for the info! Your trick works great with me! Do you also have something that easy to use with the 4-in-1?

		sizone	Mar 18, 2003
		there are a few games that even the reset and swap method has trouble booting wipeout, wipeoutxl, tunnel b1 and magical hoppers can pose some difficulty (actually i don't even think i can get the wipeout games to load w/out using a boot disc) any game that consists of a really small iso and only 1 or 2 audio tracks will also give you problems if the image isn't padded before burning

		mal	Mar 18, 2003
		Originally posted by IBarracudaI+Mar 19, 2003 @ 05:04 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IBarracudaI @ Mar 19, 2003 @ 05:04 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-MasterAkumaMatata@Mar 18, 2003 @ 08:33 AM Have you ever applied your swap technique on Destruction Derby (JAP)? :devil me? I only have the PAL version... and never tried it... but I don't see why it won't work... Are you having any toubles??[/b][/quote] I believe that Destruction Derby has multiple security ring checks.

		IBarracudaI	Mar 18, 2003
		Actually this method isn't much different from the usual double-swap... It just *exploits* the fact that a RESET doesn't clears up the TOC info... this way, the 2nd swap (the tricky one..) seems like it doesn't require an *excelent* timing... As for multi-checks... well, this method won't change a thing... you'll have to do a quick double-swap... (I say quick because the ring is *read* faster)...

		mal	Mar 18, 2003
		You also need to know when to do any additional swaps. This will vary between games. I don't think its impossible to work around, but it could be frustrating.

		printf	Mar 19, 2003
		Originally posted by mal+Mar 18, 2003 @ 04:57 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mal @ Mar 18, 2003 @ 04:57 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-MasterAkumaMatata@Mar 18, 2003 @ 08:33 AM Have you ever applied your swap technique on Destruction Derby (JAP)? :devil I believe that Destruction Derby has multiple security ring checks.[/b][/quote] I can back this up. Destruction Derby does check for the security ring again during the game.

		printf	Mar 24, 2003
		Now I got to prove myself wrong on this topic. There's now a version of Destruction Derby that will no longer check for the security ring.

		aaron	Mar 24, 2003
		i have never understood why so many people have timing issues with swapping on a model 2 saturn. the first time i did it, i read a how-to and it was all like "oh no this is gonna be so awful you're gonna get so pissed and want to smash your saturn against a wall." so i was like, "great. this is going to take fucking forever." but then i tried it and did it on the first try. and i've never had a game that has been burned correctly pizzle out on my due to lack of timing in a swap trick. this is one of those "i should make a post about this." posts.