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Best games for ISO/mp3

Tindo@heart - May 29, 2003

		Tindo@heart		May 29, 2003
			Hi, I've noticed people recently discussing the benefits of bin/cue against iso/mp3. Obviously bin/cue is preferred but not resonable for most people . . . or games. Some games don't even use CD tracks since the sound info is stored in the ISO. I think 'wheel of fortune' is this way. It wouldn't be reasonable to prefer a BIN file when an ISO for this type of game functions just as well. However, I think it is 'lunar 1' that has something like 20+ MP3 files. A game like this would probably be best to download the oversized BIN/CUE version. Instead of listing games that should be downloaded as bin/cue, I was wondering if people knew of games that are perfect for iso/mp3? Are there other games that store it's sound in the datatrack of the ISO, and don't use CD tracks? Or maybe some games only use 2 or 3 CD tracks? and which ones? I think :huh I can start the list with: Wheel of Fortune

		Taelon		May 29, 2003
			Doubt it's much use trying to start a list here... everyone would have different opinions here. The truth is it depends on how much of an ear you have for the differences of original CD audio vs. MP3 compression, and which encoder with which bitrate etc. is used, and how important the game music is to you - or even what kind of music it is and how audible it is through the game's own sounds. To me, all that comes into play (no pun intended). Often, when I rip a game, I'll briefly listen through the CD's audio tracks and decide what kind of MP3 compression they're deserving of. If the game is mostly just data I may even leave the wave files as-is, though I do generally prefer iso/wav over bin/cue, actually (I know, that puts me in the minority, but hey).

		Tindo@heart		May 29, 2003
			well, how about games that are strictly iso images? or only have 1 audio track? I'm not really interested in the quality of the mp3s, but more the quantity. What games have the least or no CD tracks?

		Jurai		May 29, 2003
			how about no games cuz iso+mp3 sucks always

		Alexvrb		May 29, 2003
			Here's a rough guide, Tindo. Game type one: Games that play a cutscene while playing a cd audio track, like Lunar 1 which actually has around 51 CDA tracks. For this type of game I recommend BIN+CUE, though a well-done ISO+MP3 rip should work fine. Game type two: Games that use little/no CDA, and the CDA they do use is not synced to a video. In the case of Lunar 2, it only has 2 audio tracks, the rest of the audio is in the data track. This includes the audio used in cutscenes. For this ISO+MP3 would work great, though you couldn't go wrong with BIN+CUE as the lack of many audio tracks doesn't make it oversized. Game type 3: Game either has no videos, or none that are synced to CDA where super perfect timing is important. As long as you don't screw up the rip, ISO+MP3 is highly recommended. You can save tons of space on all that CDA. As with any audio track, compressing it to MP3 should only be done with decent bitrates. It depends on the game and the music, as Taelon said.

		King M		May 29, 2003
			You're looking at things backwards. First of all, nearly all Sega CD games (and I believe all Saturn games) contain at least 1 audio track. The original Night Trap may be the exception, but I can't confirm that now. The great benefit of mp3's is the small filesize. This would be best used for games that have MANY audio tracks. In this instance the small loss in quality (very small if done properly) is a fair trade-off for the great deal of space that is saved. On the other hand, almost nothing is gained if you rip a game with very few audio tracks to iso-mp3. In this case, it's not worth it to create a lesser quality archive. Also note, if a game had no audio tracks, it would theoretically not make any difference, as the bin and iso would be exactly the same. Personally I go for bin/cue all the time. Iso-mp3 degrades quality too much just by not being a full image.

		Tindo@heart		May 30, 2003
			Thanks Alexvrb, King M, and Taelon for clearing that up. I understand all of what you are saying. Jurai, thanks for blessing my thread with your odd humor. Your overuse of the word 'suck' leads me to think you have an oral fixation. . . . give me a call. ahem ok, . . King I was kinda lookin at it backwards. If a bin/cue doesn't have many CDtracks, then it's basically just the same size as an ISO. So why bother with the iso/mp3 version. The only games that compress well with iso/mp3 are games with many mp3s. So it is a bit backwards. However, I have a few iso/mp3 disc and they seem perfect. Radical Rex has a delay though. However, I think it is 'cobra command' that is in perfect sync with iso/mp3 . . Hmm? or is that Vay. Either way, the audio is in perfect sync. It just depends on the quaility of the rip and how it is recreated in the burn. However, if anyone else has a suggestion of a game that works great for iso/mp3 . . I'd be very thankful. We all know that bin/cues are as close to perfect as you can get, but I don't mind mp3s . . if it doesn't have huge delays or out-of-sync video.

Taelon

May 30, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by Tindo@heart@May 30, 2003 @ 02:05 AM



 Jurai, thanks for blessing my thread with your odd humor.  Your overuse of the word 'suck' leads me to think you have an oral fixation.  . . . give me a call. 



*ahem*



ok, . . King I was kinda lookin at it backwards. If a bin/cue doesn't have many CDtracks, then it's basically just the same size as an ISO. So why bother with the iso/mp3 version. The only games that compress well with iso/mp3 are games with many mp3s. So it is a bit backwards.

ROTFL at your response to Jurai... Very nice one. I was about to post something similarly witty but how could I top yours now?

As for only games with a lot of CD audio compressing well to iso/mp3 - that's exactly what KingM said, too. So he wasn't backward with anything. You must have misread his post.

He'll agree with me on one thing, though, and that's the fact that most CD ripping software will improperly rip an ISO track with its postgap included at the end. (Does not apply to full-CD rips to bin/cue.) When burning an iso/mp3 back to CD, you create a new postgap via the cuesheet but since the ISO is (usually) 150 sectors too long, the audio tracks get pushed down by 150 sectors as well. Depending on the game, that either does nothing or leads to sync issues if not even game crashes.

I notice the ISO-too-long problem with almost all rips I download, so I've gotten into the habit of trimming the data tracks with ISOBuster before burning the game. And as long as the ISO is properly trimmed, I find that iso/mp3 images are just about as perfect as bin/cue ones, disregarding the quality of the audio of course.

		klakalou		May 30, 2003
			dont use unless i need to.

		Pearl Jammzz		May 30, 2003
			I agree w/ King.....the ones with all the audio files....should be downloaded in bin/cue format. This keeps the audio high quality and makes it so there are no messups in the audio. The ones w/o all the audio is just about the same size (maybe a meg or 2 off) as the bin/cue version so u might as well use that.

		M3d10n		May 30, 2003
			Most delays I've encountered are due to retarted people who rip their games using Nero and forget to turn the awesome "add pause between tracks" feature off. This causes a MAJOR 2 second delay on cutscenes. I believe the MP3 compression generates delays that are milliseconds big, at most, unless there is something screwy with the source wave files. You'd need to be some sort of bat to notice such small compresison-derived delays on a game wich you prolly never saw the original.

Tindo@heart

May 31, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by Taelon@May 30, 2003 @ 01:19 PM



As for only games with a lot of CD audio compressing well to iso/mp3 - that's exactly what KingM said, too. So he wasn't backward with anything. You must have misread his post.

heh, actually I was agreeing with King. My first sentence to him was "ok, . . King I was kinda lookin at it backwards"

Thanks for mentioning the "150 sectors" bit. Great info to know!

		Alexvrb		May 31, 2003
			The only reason I recommended BIN+CUE for game type 1 is that its more likely to be a good rip. If you rip it properly yourself, that's one thing, but if you're downloading something like Lunar, I'd avoid ISO+MP3 rips. My copy of Vay I downloaded needs serious work, the sync is totally off, and I'm too lazy to fix it. If it was done right, thats one thing, but at least BIN+CUE is more idiot proof. Game type 2 I was saying it didnt really matter either way. Game type 3 is everything else, the sync isnt important and you can save tons of space. So even a sloppy rip would work fine with delay and all, and a good ISO+MP3 would be the best choice. Of course, there's the odd Saturn bin+cue that didn't work until I used binchunker to convert it to ISO+WAV. I said MORE idiot proof, not totally! I've only had that happen twice, but I've heard others have had the same problem. Happened to me with Shinobi Legions and Crusader: No Remorse. All my other bin+cues work fine.