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arafat dies
SkankinMonkey - Nov 10, 2004
  SkankinMonkey Nov 10, 2004
he's dead he's dead

no articles up yet though, sorry!

It probably has to do with that brain hemmorage thing.

I hope isreal doesn't fuck up and wipe palestine off the map.

 SkankinMonkey Nov 10, 2004
oh, here's my plan for armageddon/ww3

http://pics.livejournal.com/manabatt/pic/00004q9p...

 it290 Nov 10, 2004
Personally, and this comes from someone who sees both sides as equally responsible for the current troubles, I think it will be a good thing to have him out of the picture, as long as whoever gains power is willing to negotiate. If a radical Islamist seizes control, that would definitely be a bad thing, but Arafat blew too many opportunities.

 Curtis Nov 11, 2004
I agree, it290. The players have been the same for far too long (all three sides) for there to be any hope of change. Something had to give and it looks like it just did.

Let's hope the ensuing violence/recriminations are not severe or long-lived.

 SkankinMonkey Nov 11, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by Curtis@Thu, 2004-11-11 @ 01:05 AM



I agree, it290. The players have been the same for far too long (all three sides) for there to be any hope of change. Something had to give and it looks like it just did.



Let's hope the ensuing violence/recriminations are not severe or long-lived.




[post=123473]Quoted post[/post]


I think the worst thing that happened down there was Sharon getting elected. Everything was going well before that.

 VertigoXX Nov 11, 2004
Sadly, Skank, I can see that happening.

First thing we need to do to battle terrorism is SUPPORT THE FORMATION OF A PALESTINIAN STATE as well as Israel.

Anybody watching this season of West Wing? They've been doing an arc where Bartlett is trying to resolve the conflict, and the story seems to be on the right track. Whoever is writing the show now has some ideas that might be worth bringing to the table in the real world.

 SkankinMonkey Nov 11, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by VertigoXX@Thu, 2004-11-11 @ 01:38 AM



Sadly, Skank, I can see that happening.



First thing we need to do to battle terrorism is SUPPORT THE FORMATION OF A PALESTINIAN STATE as well as Israel.



Anybody watching this season of West Wing? They've been doing an arc where Bartlett is trying to resolve the conflict, and the story seems to be on the right track. Whoever is writing the show now has some ideas that might be worth bringing to the table in the real world.




[post=123477]Quoted post[/post]


My flowchart actually did involve some nontrivial amount of thought.

 Caelestis Nov 11, 2004
The UN will never declare war on Israel simply because they know that the US would get involved. Otherwise, you seem to be right on track, skank.

 Xavier Nov 11, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by VertigoXX@Thu, 2004-11-11 @ 07:38 AM







First thing we need to do to battle terrorism is SUPPORT THE FORMATION OF A PALESTINIAN STATE as well as Israel.



Anybody watching this season of West Wing? They've been doing an arc where Bartlett is trying to resolve the conflict, and the story seems to be on the right track. Whoever is writing the show now has some ideas that might be worth bringing to the table in the real world.




[post=123477]Quoted post[/post]


You talk as if you give the terrorists what they want theyll stop killing ..ha theyll just find new excuses to cause mayhem do you really think that Osama or any of his buddies really gives a crap about Palestein ?

And a tv show solving the worlds problem huh? Its going to be years untill they even find someone who can be negoatiated with if anyone will even accept the outcome.

Usually I see pretty close to the same as you.

 ExCyber Nov 11, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			You talk as if you give the terrorists what they want theyll stop killing


AFAICT the terrorists don't want a two-state solution. If that's what they were after it seems like they'd have stopped years ago.

 antime Nov 11, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by Xavier@Thu, 2004-11-11 @ 05:36 PM



You talk as if you give the terrorists what they want theyll stop killing ..ha theyll just find new excuses to cause mayhem do you really think that Osama or any of his buddies really gives a crap about Palestein ?


You talk as if "terrorist" describes a member of a united, global organisation with a single set of well-defined goals.

 Xavier Nov 11, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by antime@Thu, 2004-11-11 @ 04:05 PM



You talk as if "terrorist" describes a member of a united, global organisation with a single set of well-defined goals.




[post=123499]Quoted post[/post]


Umm no .

exactley yeah no .

He said the next phase of the war on terror .

Terrorism comes in all races and religions , I worry often that after september 11th that fbi focus has been taken away from militias and christian racist groups but Im getting off track.

Right now the main terrorist the war on teror is focusing on is Osama and the like. His main complaint among others is Us policy in the middle east mainly Palestine.

 Xavier Nov 11, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by ExCyber@Thu, 2004-11-11 @ 03:46 PM



AFAICT the terrorists don't want a two-state solution. If that's what they were after it seems like they'd have stopped years ago.




[post=123498]Quoted post[/post]


Thats what they say they want, where it will end no-one knows. If I said what I think they really want I may be considered un-pc or a a conspiracy theorist.

Anyways last time I looked there still isnt even a second state. Alll the maps ive seen latley and theworld factbook show just one country of Isreal.

 it290 Nov 11, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			AFAICT the terrorists don't want a two-state solution. If that's what they were after it seems like they'd have stopped years ago.


I don't know about that. I mean, I don't think having a respectable Palestinian state will stop the violence by any measure, but I think if the Palestinian people felt they had some measure of security and stability, it would be much more difficult for the extremists to influence the majority of the population.

 ExCyber Nov 11, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			I don't know about that. I mean, I don't think having a respectable Palestinian state will stop the violence by any measure, but I think if the Palestinian people felt they had some measure of security and stability, it would be much more difficult for the extremists to influence the majority of the population.


This is exactly why they wouldn't want a two-state solution.

 Quadriflax Nov 11, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by it290@Thu, 2004-11-11 @ 10:41 AM



I don't know about that. I mean, I don't think having a respectable Palestinian state will stop the violence by any measure, but I think if the Palestinian people felt they had some measure of security and stability, it would be much more difficult for the extremists to influence the majority of the population.




[post=123505]Quoted post[/post]


Indeed. I think a large part of why there's so many terrorists is because, well, what else do these people have to live for? They can either live in their harsh, violent, insecure world, or blow themselves up and get 70 virgins. Terrorists are people too. Really messed up people, but people. And they weren't always messed up either. But many get messed up pretty quick at a young age. Give them some stability, a chance of leading a better life, and you'll find a lot less people willing to strap bombs on themselves for a one way trip to the bus station.

It would work the same way here too. Keep people secure, give them a chance at a better future, and joining a violent street gang won't look so good. Don't ask me the best way to do any of this though. Educating the masses is a good start, but how does one best accomplish this?

 VertigoXX Nov 12, 2004

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by Xavier@Thu, 2004-11-11 @ 10:36 AM



You talk as if you give the terrorists what they want theyll stop killing ..


Not the harcore terrorist leaders (who are really in it for personal gain, much like our own country's leaders), but it would make it far more difficult for them to recruit new terrorists. In Bin Ladden's last tape, he cited the reason for attacking the World Trade Center as the US's support of Israel's attack on two twin buildings in Lebanon back in the early 1980's. They are using our support of Israel as a reason to hate us. We must show them that yes, we support Israel, but we support them the same as ALL people. Take away the reason the common Arab can be persuaded to hate us, and a lot fewer Arabs will hate us.


  
	
	

		
		

			Usually I see pretty close to the same as you.


Scarily, that is true. We see a lot the same way, but use that to come to very different conclusions. (See some of the previous Bush vs. Kerry threads.)