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What made the DC great and why did it fail?

IceDigger - May 21, 2006

		IceDigger		May 21, 2006
			What do YOU think made the Dreamcast one kick ass system and why do YOU think it failed?

		Malakai		May 21, 2006
			I think I can sum that up with almost 100% accuracy. People were too stuck on getting the PS2. I remember one of the local game stores had japanese dreamcast systems for sale, before it came out in the US, and I was watching the demos and such and was very impressed by the graphics and all. Some people might think that the fall of sega's saturn system in America could have been the problem, and that may have contributed to it a little, but like I said, lots of people wanted Sony, they wanted their backwards compatibility, and if it meant ignoring sega's dreamcast or any other gaming system, then so be it. I believe there may be a difference between gamers then and now though. Gamers are starting to feel more comfortable buying multiple gaming systems per video game generation now. So, there is room in the video game business for multiple console companies, even though there will only be 1 #1. Also, looking at how well the nintendo wii has made its mark on the E3 this year, I think we also see that any console company can come out of the pits of hell and bring life back into their business. What do I think made the dreamcast kick ass?... Hmm.. Besides the graphics, it had one of the most innovative rpgs, Elemental Gimmick Gear and also was the first on-line console that started the PSO series, and pretty much true to the arcade ports. Also, the skies of arcadia series started on it.. I know that's probably not even touching the surface, as there are probably some awesome shooters, even though, unfortunately, I have not played many games on it.

		Pyrite		May 21, 2006
			Dreamcast: Great = Naomi Bad = Everything else

		ExCyber		May 23, 2006
			My guess for the DC's cause of death looks something like this: Historically the market has never supported more than three mainstream consoles at once Publishers saw Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo consoles on the horizon Publishers figured DC was the most likely to die an early death Publishers took resources away from DC projects Dreamcast died from lack of support

		Zaksund		May 26, 2006
			I thought the DC was great because it was home to lots of offbeat and shockingly good stuff you just couldn't get anywhere else, just like all classic SEGA machines . Mind you this was before it's library was totally whored out... I know it's gonna sound trite, but I'm gonna PS2 hype killed the DC more than anything else. I knew so many people that were just passing over the Dreamcast for the upcoming Playstation 2 that it was nuts. It was actually a good move for Sony just to mention that the PS2 was in the works. It pretty much told the consumer, "Hey! Yeah the DC is here now and it's o.k., but something better is comin' down the line if you just wait a bit!" Who knew they actually would? Suprisingly, I don't know what SEGA themselves did wrong as far as the handling of the machine. I mean, I actually remember seeing DC ads in magazines and commercials for it on TV (something I totally can't say about the Saturn). Stuff like posters and demo kiosks were everywhere around here!

		Pyrite		May 26, 2006
			What SEGA did bad with the DC? Bad controller, VMU, no DVD drive, no reset button, everything felt cheap. Like I said the software was great specially the Naomi ports but everything else could have been much improved, even the controller I dunno why they just didn't go with the NiGHTS pad design.

Malakai

May 26, 2006

I couldn't agree more. If people say it's support that killed sega, it's support of the consumer and not sega themselves. The dreamcast was innovative, as it brought those things I mentioned earlier, and overall, it was a good system. A company can only put out so many games before cutting their losses due to people skipping the DC completely and pre-ordering PS2 systems. If that meant only having 10 good games as opposed to 50 good games, that's the fault of every one that bought a ps2 over a dreamcast.

The laser problems and the controller port problems would have been fixed in later revisions, I'm sure, but it didn't even have a chance. The controllers may not have been of saturn feel/quality/shape, but they were better than atari jaguar and n64 controllers.

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by Zaksund@Fri, 2006-05-26 @ 03:15 PM



I know it's gonna sound trite, but I'm gonna PS2 hype killed the DC more than anything else. I knew so many people that were just passing over the Dreamcast for the upcoming Playstation 2 that it was nuts. It was actually a good move for Sony just to mention that the PS2 was in the works. It pretty much told the consumer, "Hey! Yeah the DC is here now and it's o.k., but something better is comin' down the line if you just wait a bit!" Who knew they actually would?



Suprisingly, I don't know what SEGA themselves did wrong as far as the handling of the machine. I mean, I actually remember seeing DC ads in magazines and commercials for it on TV (something I totally can't say about the Saturn). Stuff like posters and demo kiosks were everywhere around here!



[post=146444]Quoted post[/post]

Cloud121

May 26, 2006

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by Zher@Fri, 2006-05-26 @ 04:03 PM



What SEGA did bad with the DC? Bad controller, VMU, no DVD drive, no reset button, everything felt cheap. Like I said the software was great specially the Naomi ports but everything else could have been much improved, even the controller I dunno why they just didn't go with the NiGHTS pad design.



[post=146449]Quoted post[/post]

With the $10.5 Million Sega lost in the 3DFX lawsuit, they could have probably put a DVD-ROM in the console. The thing would have sold like hotcakes in Japan.

		Jedi Master Thrash		Jun 2, 2006
			I think the entire problem was with customer loyalty. There's only one things that makes a company #1 for the long haul, and that's loyal customers. And sega of japan shunned its customers big time when it cancelled support for all prior systems (sms, genesis, cd, 32x, game gear) to put all support on the Saturn. Everyone had just spent all their hard-earned money on segas latest consoles just to be told sorry, we're canning them. Um, wanna buy a saturn? No. That was the point when I quit console gaming and went PC full-time until 2002 when I rediscovered old games on the used market. I was so pissed at sega for dumping support for my segacd and 32x. And of course I was upset when they were still alive that we'd only get like 1 new game every 6 months. It's my belief that if sega of japan hadn't tried to backstab sega of america, the 3rd parties wouldn't have dumped cd&32x to wait for the saturn, and we could have still had 3rd party software coming out to keep the systems alive. Without the constant influx of 3rd party software, a system can't survive. Consumers have the view the system as alive by constantly seeing new titles. And when segacd was creating titles, they forgot to testdriver them first and threw out too many craptastic duds which fuelled its demise. With 3rd party support, lots of new games, the genesis/cd/32x machine would have done great. It had both things that were needed: backwards compatibility (= large install base and large software base), and 32-bit power (despite the fact that few games were made to take even close to its advantage, the 32x+CD combo was capable of saturn-quality games. So, basically, the 32x-CD should have replaced the saturn. And then the customer base still would have been loyal when the new dreamcast came out. And the dreamcast should have had the cartridge port like the saturn did, BUT actually support genesis & 32x cartridges for backwards compatibility, and also played CD games. And this time when the dreamcast came out, all the loyal sega fans hadn't been scorned and jumped ship to Sony, so they would have fared much better in the competition. Dreamcast had superior graphics and games and would have easily won. Also, there's one problem with consoles that noone has yet tackled, and that's import games. Since sms and nintendo and continuing through the ps2 we've passed over great import titles, and the ones we imported we f'd up royal by removing the story/cutscenes, replacing sprites and names completely, etc. If someone would just step up and start porting games the right way, they would gain a huge loyal following of fans who want to see unmolested imported games. Like the people who want to watch Star Wars on DVD the way it was meant to be - the way it was in the theaters 20 years go.

dibz

Jun 2, 2006

	
	
		
		
			Like the people who want to watch Star Wars on DVD the way it was meant to be - the way it was in the theaters 20 years go.

I believe they are re-releasing the original trilogy on DVD soon, or this fall or something. I believe it contains both the redone and original versions.

		mal		Jun 3, 2006
			Yes, yes they are.

		mtxblau		Jun 9, 2006
			It's already been stated but I'd state it again. PS2 hype. The emotion engine, being so powerful that it would be used by the military, etc. etc. That, and on board DVD. It felt like a better deal, too. One thing that I would like to note that the DC was just one of three competitors to the PS2. It still fended off the Xbox and GC. It's quite a feat, considering the DC had one of the best first day sales in history. I think third party support natural follows when there is excitement or anticipation for a product. I can see the Wii seeing more ports of games (or a larger variety) as opposed to the GC, just based on the kind of hype it has already generated. In the same vein, the PS2 had such a huge hype machine behind it, it's hard to not throw weight behind the machine.

		Xavier		Jun 13, 2006
			Im gonna have to agree with the other users the false leaks of the ps2 killed the dreamcast. Everbody was saying some crazy crap like the ps2 was going to be 1.2 ghz when even pc's at the time couldnt break the 1ghz factor. Dvd and backwards compatibility would have been nice but the system at launch wouldve been $400+. Well a stand alone dvd player was $200+. I liked the controllers/vmu myself. Lets not forget by the time of its demise the dreamcast had like 254 games for it, a big feat for a system that was only out for 2 years at the time. I like all the accessories for it, marcasas, keyboard, fishing rod, modem, steering wheel, dance pad, arcade stick, vga support, what else am I forgetting? Anybody have the pdf from sega.com of the dreamcast .pdf complete gamelist ?

		Quakester2000		Jun 15, 2006
			The main reason the dreamcast failed was the fact that sega just wasnt in the same financial position as it was in the mega drive and saturn days meaning it could no longer push the system as much. Also the adverts were extremly poor they never showed off any games or their graphics. Also the hype of the PS2 also helped to crush the DC.

		M3d10n		Jun 18, 2006
			Sega was too wounded to fight-off the PS2 hype. Their image and pockets were both wounded from past failures. When Sony began hyping the PS2 to godly levels, Sega had already spent most of they marketing money trying to fight FF8, a PSOne game, for attention. They failed to make the consumers aware of the Dreamcast and it's actual power. It's amazing how much people never actually played or seen a Dreamcast running ("maybe once", they say) before it's demise. When exposed to the Dreamcast later, they're all like "wow, it looks like PS2 graphics, I though/was told the DC had PSOne graphics." Sega also failed to market their sports titles over the EA's ones. Sport games consumers are very influenciable by good graphics, and Sega could've snatched a lot of casual sports gamers with enough market to showcase their visual superiority (which could help displaying their gameplay superiority as well). It's also important to note that, while the Dreamcast had some awesome and unique titles, it missed in certain key genres that were moving systems elsewhere. - There was nothing to compete with Final Fantasy (both SoA and Grandia 2 were too late and weren't... teenage-y enough to grab the FF whores' attention). - There were barely any "gritty action/shooting single-player games with compelling storylines and cinematics". There was RE: CV, but Sega couldn't help building hype the game until it's launch. To survive the PS2 Sega needed something that could compare to MGS 2 in sheer grandiosity and hypeability (sp?), and arcade-style games and arcade ports, as good as they were, had long ceased being flagship titles. I think that in the end, it can all be summed up into insufficient marketing. Sega's screams couldn't shake the world enough, thus few 3rd party developers became excited into creating new games making full use of the hardware, and either ignored the system completely or resorted to porting whatever PSOne/N64/PC/Arcade game they had done. Consumers who stopped caring about the Saturn back in '97 hardly noticed the Dreamcast at all, drowned in the flood of PS2 hype pouring all over the place.

Malakai

Jun 22, 2006

I often wonder what would have happened if the saturn would have been a lot more popular in the US. Part of the consumers probably either bought in to the 32x or "heard" about it, and then when the saturn came out, I don't remember any advertising, other than the nights into dreams game.

Sega apparently tried to play the sonic card again, with the ok-graphics, 3d, fast visuals or whatever, analog controllers, and not much else.

I remember going to Toys R Us around that time, and they only had 1 game in their kiosk: nights in to dreams, and the whole system wasn't even in the video game section. It was kind of just put in a dark corner somewhere. No kids were looking at it or playing it.

Even with its demise, the saturn still had quite a few good games released in the USA. So, I guess when people look back on the sega saturn 20 years from now, they may say that it was some thing like "the game system that stayed in the shadows"

Originally posted by M3d10n@Sun, 2006-06-18 @ 07:29 PM

Sega was too wounded to fight-off the PS2 hype. Their image and pockets were both wounded from past failures.

When Sony began hyping the PS2 to godly levels, Sega had already spent most of they marketing money trying to fight FF8, a PSOne game, for attention. They failed to make the consumers aware of the Dreamcast and it's actual power.

It's amazing how much people never actually played or seen a Dreamcast running ("maybe once", they say) before it's demise. When exposed to the Dreamcast later, they're all like "wow, it looks like PS2 graphics, I though/was told the DC had PSOne graphics."

Sega also failed to market their sports titles over the EA's ones. Sport games consumers are very influenciable by good graphics, and Sega could've snatched a lot of casual sports gamers with enough market to showcase their visual superiority (which could help displaying their gameplay superiority as well).

It's also important to note that, while the Dreamcast had some awesome and unique titles, it missed in certain key genres that were moving systems elsewhere.

- There was nothing to compete with Final Fantasy (both SoA and Grandia 2 were too late and weren't... teenage-y enough to grab the FF whores' attention).

- There were barely any "gritty action/shooting single-player games with compelling storylines and cinematics". There was RE: CV, but Sega couldn't help building hype the game until it's launch. To survive the PS2 Sega needed something that could compare to MGS 2 in sheer grandiosity and hypeability (sp?), and arcade-style games and arcade ports, as good as they were, had long ceased being flagship titles.

I think that in the end, it can all be summed up into insufficient marketing.

Sega's screams couldn't shake the world enough, thus few 3rd party developers became excited into creating new games making full use of the hardware, and either ignored the system completely or resorted to porting whatever PSOne/N64/PC/Arcade game they had done.

Consumers who stopped caring about the Saturn back in '97 hardly noticed the Dreamcast at all, drowned in the flood of PS2 hype pouring all over the place.

[post=146708]Quoted post[/post]

		Raven1280		Mar 13, 2007
			DC was wonderful when it first came out but once the PS2 hit it was all over. Looking back now from a tech standpoint. DC just wasn't capable of lasting as long as ps2 did when fighting amongst the xbox and gamecube. DC was a great system with great games but just like my beloved saturn, it was overlooked and cut down.