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saturn bootable cds, making a new saturn game

Coolgame - Jan 2, 2006

		Coolgame	Jan 2, 2006
		I gave up on breaking the security code,I think it would be easier to use the blank cds that the developers used. I like to know is there a way to get the disc with the security code ring already on them? How did the third party companies attain them?

		slinga	Jan 2, 2006
		I'd assume they'd purchase directly from Sega for a very steep amount...

		dj898	Jan 2, 2006
		I have sealed Sega Saturn CD-R master from Sega but since it's not opened I have no way to know whether it has the security ring or not... my guess is it doesn't as I don't think Sega would sell such CD-R blank since there'd be no need for the system disc 1 then...

		RockinB	Jan 3, 2006
		Well, if I would like to publish a new Saturn game, then I know how I would do it in order that it runs on any unmodded Saturn. BTW: what kind of game are your working on?

		lordofduct	Jan 3, 2006
		I've seen this debate for years... NEVER have I seen anyone with Saturn CD-rs with the security ring. I've heard people say they did, but when they posted pics... no ring. dj898 can back me up (and I'm surprised by his rather amateur post on the subject as he probably knows quite a bit with his massive collection) Just like dj898 said... why have a System Disk? It'd make no sense. If you really look deep down in it, it would be really not cost effective to even offer such a disk due to the process of making them. A CD-R is a reflective tin platter over plastic that has a chemical smeared on it. When the laser heats up really high it causes the chemical to darken and not allow light to mass through... so that way later when read with a regular laser it is just like a divate in a normal CD made from a master. For the disk to come with a security ring. The security ring would have to be placed in it's appropriate place by convential CD creation process (much different from CD-R burning). But then also filling in all the empty space between with chemical. This would take a whole new process of CD-R pressing... new machinery, all for a disk with limited space compared to normal CD-Rs that basically really are made to work on Saturns. At a time when CD-Rs were expensive as hell and burned at very slow speeds... it would of made no sense to throw this much more money at something from a company already losing lots of damn money. Shit not even Sony did this; a company with almost endless funds. They just released dev systems that ignored the security code as opposed to making propriatary CD-r's.     Originally posted by Rockin'-B@Tue, 2006-01-03 @ 12:12 PM Well, if I would like to publish a new Saturn game, then I know how I would do it in order that it runs on any unmodded Saturn. BTW: what kind of game are your working on? [post=143161]Quoted post[/post] How about try and figure out what and where exactly the security ring is... and then find some CD mastering company out there that would make you CDs with that code on it as well as your software. With all the CD mastering companies now available (especially due to internet advertising and access) it wouldn't be that hard. The machinary has come down in price and a lot of people do it now... there has to be people low enough and willing to due something that really isn't the highest of legal... or just ignorant because you don't tell them what exactly is in your master image. [EDIT]After some looking around... it averages between 600-1200 dollars for the manufacturing of 500 disks. Depends the company and how much work is expected (if art is being placed on the disk, art in the jewel case, IF there is a jewel case, other packaging...) You probably could find even less then 600... just have to hunt around.[/EDIT] This process is not cost effective for someone bootleggin a copy for himself... but if you plan on mass publishing it for 100s of people so you can distribute this is your best freaking bet... BUT I don't know how the hell you'd locate what the security code is. Not my field

		dj898	Jan 4, 2006
		well it was quick post after two hour of straight air brushing so probably my head was half filled with all those tasty(?) paint... he he for the system disc/boot disc even Dev consoles had the security check since majority of them were basically modified retail consoles or based on one so the need for the system disc plus the need ofr 1st party and 3rd party boot disc... personally I never tried these system disc on retail consoles so no idea whether they will work nor whether the prototype console also has the security checking - though I believe it would...

		antime	Jan 4, 2006
		Originally posted by lordofduct@Wed, 2006-01-04 @ 07:21 AM Just like dj898 said... why have a System Disk? It'd make no sense. Because you want the game to be testable in its final form, and without having to distribute lots of system discs. It's no proof for the existence of these discs, but the master CD-ROM release form mentions two types of CD-Rs: Saturn CD-Rs with a Sega logo on them and "SEGA Private Media" with Saturn logos on them. (The release form also asks if the game looks the same and runs at the same speed on PAL hardware. Evidently failing that was no reason for submission rejection, the cungts.)     If you really look deep down in it, it would be really not cost effective to even offer such a disk due to the process of making them. You can make a lot of discs for the cost of custom hardware. Sony took a completely different approach to the whole development process and had the money to implement their vision.

		lordofduct	Jan 4, 2006
		Originally posted by antime@Wed, 2006-01-04 @ 06:50 PM You can make a lot of discs for the cost of custom hardware. Sony took a completely different approach to the whole development process and had the money to implement their vision. [post=143207]Quoted post[/post] But Sega barely even made custom hardware... to cut costs. Hence the modified retail versions... The existence of two different printed style discs doesn't mean one is bootable and the other not. Why would they offer it like that? And again also if both these discs are known about; why hasn't anyone shown solid proof of self bootable discs yet? Come now, of the hundreds and probably thousands of proto-type discs that have spewn out of peoples collections, closets and cd folders... NONE have been self bootable. Anyone who would bother purchasing it is technically inclined enough to give two shits about checking.     Because you want the game to be testable in its final form, and without having to distribute lots of system discs. Oh so instead of distributing a few hundred system disks that can boot ANY prototype... they are going to release thousands of self booting CD-Rs with security rings on them. ??? That makes no sense. If you want to test before manufacturing... the people testing it are probably developers already and HAVE the system disk... or work for SEGA and definatly have the damn disk. You know the system disk is used for booting CD-Rs right? It is like the Utopia disk on DC...

		dj898	Jan 4, 2006
		and Sega used two separate system disc for 1st party and 3rd party... when I get my 2nd cartdev system ex-Konami it came with 3rd party system disc labelled Konami... O_O like I said haven't bothered to test the disc on the retail console since I have no need ...

		antime	Jan 5, 2006
		Originally posted by lordofduct@Thu, 2006-01-05 @ 06:01 AM Oh so instead of distributing a few hundred system disks that can boot ANY prototype... they are going to release thousands of self booting CD-Rs with security rings on them. That makes no sense. If you want to test before manufacturing... the people testing it are probably developers already and HAVE the system disk... or work for SEGA and definatly have the damn disk. The system disc can't actually boot that many games (someone did a compatibility test, you can find it in the Saturn forum somewhere), and you would need to test that your game works with the normal boot system. Access to the CD-Rs could (and probably would) have been controlled, ie. you had to send your build off to Sega to get a batch of test discs. And again, making special CD-Rs would have been cheaper than pressing them. I'm not saying bootable CD-Rs definitely existed, just that they would not be so implausible as you say.

		KuKzz	Jan 6, 2006
		They could just burn this rings on CD-r's on custom burner. But we would have seen such disks by now if they're existed.

		slinga	Jan 6, 2006
		I'm pretty sure the security rings were pressed like that, not burned.

		dj898	Jan 8, 2006
		interesting thread to read through if you are interesting in Saturn's disc protection... click here...!

		madmalkav	Jan 10, 2006
		I'm also sure the security ring was pressed, and probably any serious cd pressing company will be able to copy it and press it. You just have to start looking for someone that wants to do it for an affordable price