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PAL question
aaron - Jan 25, 2005
  aaron Jan 25, 2005
okay! so let's say i have a US saturn and want to play a PAL game (say, Formula Karts SE) on my US saturn and my US TV. would installing a 50/60 Hz switch work? or do i need a different TV? or something? i know next to nothing about PAL and it's mysterious ways.

 Shakey Jake33 Jan 26, 2005
It actually kinda depends on the game really...

Assuming you have the ability to boot imports (cart or whatever), most PAL games are actually best played in NTSC. This is because a large amount of games suffered really bad NTSC-to-PAL conversions when they were made, and resulted in a boardered, slower game when they came out in PAL form. Running them in NTSC (60Hz) fixes this. This is why so many PAL users get 50/60Hz switches installed!

This does not apply to all games however... some games were 'fixed' when they came out in PAL format to be full screen and full speed, so in NTSC mode, they are too big and too fast. These titles are very rare though... usually most first party Sega titles that came out in the earlier half of the Saturn's life (Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter 2...). You'd need a switch to run these games in 50Hz to play theser games properly.

I wouldn't bother with the switch though if I were you... for the very few PAL games that don't work properly, just get the US equivelents.

 aaron Jan 26, 2005
okay, that does help. thanks. what i am wanting to do is get the games that were released in PAL-land only (Z, formula karts, 3D Lemmings, etc). do you know of any that will run super poorly? my backup of Formula Karts SE was too big and ran really quickly after i changed the region to NTSC using satconv. it seemed like i was missing pieces of the screen. like my TV wasn't tall enough.

hm..

edit: after rereading your post, i think i'll just get a 50/60 Hz switch installed to fix my Formula Karts problem. thanks!

 Shakey Jake33 Jan 26, 2005
If Formula Karts runs too big, it's been PAL optimised and needs a switch.

3D Lemmings should work fine in NTSC mode, I don't think any Psygnosis games got proper optomisation (although the intro movie to WipEout 2097 does de-sync).

Can't comment on Z.

A switch is a nice idea if you can do it. Be sure your TV can handle a PAL signal though.

I'd say about 90% of PAL TV's can handle an NTSC signal, but I'm told the other way around is significantly lower...

 Pyrite Jan 26, 2005
A NTSC Saturn will always output NTSC even if you´re playing a PAL game, I have a TV that's incompatible with the NTSC norma but compatible with 60Hz frequency so when I play JP games with my JP Saturn the picture is gray even when I play PAL games using that Saturn. The problem is that certain PAL games will run alright on a NTSC Saturn but others may run with all sort of problems.

 Shakey Jake33 Jan 26, 2005

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by Zher@Thu, 2005-01-27 @ 05:19 AM



A NTSC Saturn will always output NTSC even if youre playing a PAL game, I have a TV that's incompatible with the NTSC norma but compatible with 60Hz frequency so when I play JP games with my JP Saturn the picture is gray even when if I play PAL games using that Saturn. The problem is that certain PAL games will run alright on a NTSC Saturn but others may run with all sort of problems.




[post=128439]Quoted post[/post]


Which is why he was talking about a switch.

 Drenholm Jan 27, 2005
Running PAL optimised games correctly on an NTSC Saturn would require the use of NTSC50 (NTSC, but 25 frames - 50 half frames - per second). I don't know about the popularity of that format - it could be hit and miss.

I do know, however, that 60Hz PAL (PAL60/PAL 4.43) is becoming more widely supported and new consoles offer a choice of 50/60Hz, so us Europeans are getting some luck in this respect at last!

Formula Karts must be one of the optimised games, as has already been said.

Anyway, good luck!

 Shakey Jake33 Jan 27, 2005
I was under the impression that the Saturn could not output either NTSC-50 or PAL60... the switch would allow straight PAL, or straight NTSC, and that's it.

 Drenholm Jan 27, 2005
Nah, PAL Saturns always send PAL colour carrier signals, and vice versa with NTSC. The 50/60Hz switch will just change the scanning frequency; the actual colour carrier type is controlled by the video processor, and cannot be changed from PAL to NTSC or the other way round, unless of course you feel like transplanting a video chip.

Wow; I'm surprising myself! I hardly know anything about the Saturn or TV types, but I feel really clever now!

 ExCyber Jan 27, 2005

  
	
	

		
		

			the actual colour carrier type is controlled by the video processor


It's the encoder that controls color encoding, not video processor. The particular chip is the Sony CXA1645, and it's located near the output connector. It can output either PAL or NTSC, but I think some of the external components are different values for PAL and NTSC, so I doubt you can just tack a mode pin high/low and have it work right.

 Drenholm Jan 27, 2005
My mistake there; thanks, ExCyber. Hopefully, I almost got it right!

What I meant to put across was the point that there is no easy way to change between PAL and NTSC - a switch would just control the scanning rate.

It's actually easier for Europeans to fit a 50/60Hz switch in their Saturn, from what I gather - PAL60 is more popular and supported than NTSC50, is it not?

 Shakey Jake33 Jan 28, 2005
I'd say 95% of todays TV's in the UK support PAL60...

And about 90% support NTSC as long as it's running through a decent connection like RGB SCART.

You'd be *very* unlucky to end up with a TV that doesn't support PAL60 or NTSC.

 antime Jan 28, 2005
If you're using RGB you're using RGB and not any encoding scheme like NTSC.

 Shakey Jake33 Jan 28, 2005

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by antime@Fri, 2005-01-28 @ 12:16 PM



If you're using RGB you're using RGB and not any encoding scheme like NTSC.




[post=128525]Quoted post[/post]


Yeah I know. I don't know the technical side of it all, I just know using an RF lead or AV cable to display NTSC on a PAL TV generally leads of a black and white or rolling display, which is fixed by picking up an RGB Scart cable.

 antime Jan 28, 2005
That's because those TVs don't understand NTSC, but feeding a straight RGB signal works on most TVs, even at 60Hz.

 aaron Jan 30, 2005
well shucks. i'll check out my TV. anybody have any 50/60 switch resources while i'm asking newbie questions? thanks!