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Looking at some doing some textures...
Sundance_2 - Nov 22, 2003
  Sundance_2 Nov 22, 2003
Hi there,

I've been looking for a good program to develop textures for models, etc I'm creating in OpenGL for quite a long time, and quite frankly, MSPaint just isn't cutting it. After looking for about a week, I have been lead to one of two products:

1.) PhotoShop (the CS version)

2.) Corel Draw

However, both of these are fairly expensive. So I was wondering if by any chance someone could give me some advice as to which product is the best choice (based on your experience, what you've read, or anything basically). Personally, I've read several reviews myself, and am lead to believe that Photoshop is the superior product, but am still unsure.

Thanks, I really appreciate it.

 Mask of Destiny Nov 22, 2003
As I understand it, Corel Draw is more of a vector graphics application making it more akin to Adobe Illustrator than Photoshop.

I would be hardpressed to say which application is best for texture work as I've never done it myself, but I can say that Photoshop is an excellent product for image manipulation, from everything from compositing to color correction to just about anything else it is the best.

You can download a free demo of Photoshop if you want to give it a spin. I would imagine that Corel offers the same.

 gameboy900 Nov 22, 2003
Corel Draw is the name of the vector drawing program (and namesake) in the package. CorelPhoto is the equivalent to Photoshop. (There are also other programs in the pack like a 3D editor and stuff). I haven't used CorelDraw since like version 6 but I remember that the photo editor was alright. It didn't have layers like Photoshop but that could have been added in the 4 or 5 versions that have since come out. Get a demo of both and try them to see which is best.

 it290 Nov 22, 2003
Photoshop is good for textures, but CorelDRAW is pretty good too, as it comes with a bunch of textures, and you can use DRAW and PhotoPaint for that type of work (although as mentioned above, DRAW is a vector program). I definitely prefer CorelDRAW to Illustrator or Freehand though.

Actually, I use Photoshop for just about all my bitmap needs, but I have to say that when it comes to having filters for actually generating textures, the GIMP might beat out Photoshop in that area (with the default filters anyway). Also, GIMP is free. So check that out if you haven't already. It's definitely a good alternative and it definitely rivals PS in some ways, especially for smaller RGB images.

 it290 Nov 22, 2003
Oh yeah, what application are you using for modelling? Because I use lightwave and it has some quite good procedural texture functions as well... most 3d programs do. You can take the procedurals and 'bake' them into a bitmap for use in games. That's what I did for several textures on some UT2003 models I did.

 Sundance_2 Nov 22, 2003

  
	
	

		
		

			Oh yeah, what application are you using for modelling? Because I use lightwave and it has some quite good procedural texture functions as well... most 3d programs do. You can take the procedurals and 'bake' them into a bitmap for use in games. That's what I did for several textures on some UT2003 models I did.


Most of my work is delegate to actually developing from basically the essentials of OpenGL. Much of the libraries and sub-applications I use are created from what I can do in Visual Studio. Lightwave, along with other graphics utitilities such as 3D Studio Max, Maya, and Softimage are very nice, but are incredibly expensive (even at the Academic License level).

I'm also aware of course that you can download these illegally, but for the work which I am interested in doing (hopefully some form of free distribution) and the level at which I am at in my education, it just doesn't seem right really to steal something that I would be using to give myself somewhat of a serious benefit.

Anyway, I think I'll give those demo's a shot.

 it290 Nov 22, 2003
Well, like I said, definitely give GIMP a try.

Also, I saw an ebay auction recently where someone was selling some cheap ass scanners that supposedly came with full versions of Photoshop, I kind of doubt it's for real but you might want to check that out.

BTW, Lightwave doesn't really cost much more than a new copy of Photoshop. It's quite a bit cheaper than most of the other 3d apps out there. (And better, IMO, in the modelling and rendering departments- not animation though.)

 Sundance_2 Nov 23, 2003

  
	
	

		
		

			BTW, Lightwave doesn't really cost much more than a new copy of Photoshop. It's quite a bit cheaper than most of the other 3d apps out there. (And better, IMO, in the modelling and rendering departments- not animation though.)


Lightwave sounds interesting, but can the models and other creations be incorporated into an existing application though? That is, If I have an existing project that I am creating in Visual Studio, can I use some libraries and/or some form of integration that Lightwave provideds to throw my models directly into the work? Or is it done in such a way that your work can only be incorporated into CG.

From what I have been told, the work you can do out of many other graphics applications is limited to CG, and cannot be used in realtime where the user interacts. Is this actually true, or do programs like Lightwave, 3D Studio Max, Maya, etc all allow you to create in game models that can be imported into a game, etc?

BTW: I'll give GIMP a try today.

Thanks alot for your help.

 it290 Nov 23, 2003
Well, Ligthwave, Max, Maya, et al. can all export models into a format that can be used by games, but you will need code to support it. For example, UT2003 and Quake 3 Arena both have plugins for Lightwave that can be used to export the model, animations, and texture coordinates. Actually, you might want to look into integrating md3 (Q3A) model support, as there is a fair amount of GPL'd code out there that supports it, and it's a widely used format. But yeah, almost all 3d models in commercial games are created in one of those 3 pieces of software (although there are others out there that see some use as well).

BTW, if you want to mess with a 3d application, you can give Blender a try, it's open source as well, and was originally designed for creating Playstation models. It actually has a game engine built into it as well (which you can script using Python)- not sure if the game engine part has been GPL'd yet though. I used to use it, and while it's not that user-friendly, once you get used to the interface it's not that bad. Then, if you wanted to, you could write some code for your application to support DXF files, .blend files, or whatever. The main disadvantage of Blender (IMHO) is that its UV editing functions basically suck, and if you want to do game models, they're going to be UV mapped models.

 antime Nov 23, 2003
Nope, the game engine is not part of the GPLed Blender (at least yet). You can still download v2.25 from the Blender site if you want it, though.

 Krelian Nov 23, 2003
Have you thought about Corel Painter?

...and if you're a student (or teacher) chances are you can pick it up at a more reasonable price...

~Krelian