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legally releasing commercial games

RockinB - Mar 21, 2005

		RockinB	Mar 21, 2005
		I remember there being some discussion about getting a license for the SBL/SGL libraries from SEGA. It was about how much it costs and when SEGA stopped to accept developer assignments. You know there are commercial releases for other consoles like the SEGA-CD releases from www.gooddealgames.com... or www.oldergames.com.... And some may remember the Atari releases of songbird productions.... Most recently there were the 3 dreamcast releases by goat store.... Does anyone know something about becoming an official Saturn developer(back at that time)? Or what options do we have to release commercial Saturn games without getting problems with SEGA? Maybe you know how the examples above managed the legal issue? If other consoles see commercial releases years after their death, what about Saturn? :huh

		Mask of Destiny	Mar 21, 2005
		As far as I know, Older Games never got permission from Sega to publish those games, just from the original developers (or whoever owns the rights to these orphaned games). The Dreamcast releases on the Goat store don't use any Sega development libraries, they're all made using KOS an open source alternative devkit. So there is nothing Sega can complain about. There is the occasional Japanese release that I believe is licensed by Sega, not 100% sure though. I doubt Sega really cares about people using the old Saturn dev stuff, but if you want to be 100% legal about it you have two options. The first is to contact Sega and try to obtain a license. I'm sure they would be more than happy to take your money as long as it doesn't require any real effort on their part. You might have some trouble finding the right person to talk to however. Your other option is to not use SGL/SBL and make your own devkit of sorts like what was done in the Dreamcast community.

		slinga	Mar 21, 2005
		I guess the best bet is to try and contact Sega directly. How receptive they will be is any one's guess. I'm going out on a limb and say there going to tell you to bugger off. Why? Because Sega and other hardware manufacturers make money off of game sales. From what I understand of the video game industry, when a 3rd party developer releases a game on a system, the console maker takes a cut of the action. Is there still money to be made on the Saturn? I highly doubt it, even for a low budget homebrew game. How many copies do you think you'll really sell of even an amazing game? 20 copies? 40 copies? And that's being generous. Multiply that by $20 each copy (will people pay $49.99 for a new saturn game? I personally don't believe so). So at best case your looking at $800 of revenue. Who knows what your expenses will be. What's Sega's cut on that? Not enough to make it worthwhile I would imagine. I'm not trying to dishearten you, I'm just trying to take a look at the economics. On the other hand, if Sega e-mails you back and says, sure you can you have a dev kit + license for $$$$, post here. I'll gladly donate something to your cause.

antime

Mar 21, 2005

Originally posted by Mask of Destiny@Mon, 2005-03-21 @ 11:38 PM

Your other option is to not use SGL/SBL and make your own devkit of sorts like what was done in the Dreamcast community.

If you really wanted to be strictly legit you'd have to do this without using any of the available documentation, reverse-engineering the whole system. However for most of us it's a bit too late.

		slinga	Mar 21, 2005
		You'd still need a way to boot it on the system then.

		vreuzon	Mar 22, 2005
		If you really want to earn money with your saturn progs, I suggest you to set up a PayPal account (or any alternative... I don't want to make publicity for PayPal) and ask for reward if somebody use the game. I hope you'll give your sources anyway.

		RockinB	Mar 22, 2005
		Thanks for your thoughts, guys. So I summarise: Unfinished games can be released by licensing from the game maker only, not SEGA. We will never have a KOS on Saturn. A completely selfmade Saturn library is beyond our possibilities, since the scene is small. Azuco mentioned that he got Saturn libs, but no download. So: I want SEGA to somehow provide the permission. But how? Who should I talk to? Someone who worked on Saturn games back that time, maybe. Would SEGA release the SGL/SBL under a free license for all of us? Or do I really have to pay money? What if we all buy the SGL SOURCECODE from SEGA? Maybe they leave it for free... ...and if not, how much you think it will cost? It won't be possible to become official Saturn developer, since they don't accept any new. That might be because it's involved with costs by SEGA for support and quality program. It's always been a dream of mine to have new commercial Saturn games and maybe even release one by myself. Making money is not an aspect, as it seems impossible. If there would be a new game, I'd buy it!

vreuzon

Mar 22, 2005

I really don't see the point in being an official Saturn developer. You have the dev tools for a cheap console, what else do you need ?

Originally posted by Rockin'-B@Tue, 2005-03-22 @ 11:21 AM

If there would be a new game, I'd buy it!

Buy my floupix.

		Djidjo	Mar 22, 2005
		Yeah, Rockin-B, if you really want to buy a game, go to the link in my signature to floupix, download it, and give money to my PayPal account (email : fredo46@lycos.com...), I swear I'll give the money to Vreuzon. Floupix features incredible fun from 2 to 12 players, you can even play alone with CPU-controlled floupix, many bonuses, nice sprites and backgrounds, funny music. Choose the game length, the bonus collection, the control type... There's also a very original 3-team gameplay ! I've played it a LOT, and I can also tell you that the gameplay seems simple but is very deep, there are many strategies you can use and invent, either alone or in team. All of this for the price you want, from 0 to 1 Million Dollar. Isn't that great news ? arty Djidjo

RockinB

Mar 22, 2005

Originally posted by vreuzon+Tue, 2005-03-22 @ 12:44 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vreuzon @ Tue, 2005-03-22 @ 12:44 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I really don't see the point in being an official Saturn developer. You have the dev tools for a cheap console, what else do you need ?

Buy my floupix.

[post=131957]Quoted post[/post]
[/b]

The point is twofold:

We're using leaked SEGA libs, this potentially may cause problems.

And the commercial thing is just fulfilling a small personal dream.

I'm collecting Saturn games (not ISOs) here and there, a new game for the dead console would be a sensation, not only for me.

<!--QuoteBegin-D
jidjo@Tue, 2005-03-22 @ 01:05 PM

Yeah, Rockin-B, if you really want to buy a game, go to the link in my signature to floupix, download it, and give money to my PayPal account (email : fredo46@lycos.com...), I swear I'll give the money to Vreuzon.

[post=131958]Quoted post[/post]
[/quote]

I did'nt know that Floupix is a commercial game. Anyways, I don't have any money at the time either.

Everyone don't need to get angry when talking about money.

vreuzon

Mar 24, 2005

Don't worry about "potential problems": the ssmtf is too powerfull for sega to fight against us.

If there would be a new game, I'd buy it!

Originally posted by Rockin'-B@Tue, 2005-03-22 @ 02:37 PM

Anyways, I don't have any money at the time either.

alright !

RockinB

Mar 24, 2005

Originally posted by Mask of Destiny@Mon, 2005-03-21 @ 08:38 PM

You might have some trouble finding the right person to talk to however.

[post=131928]Quoted post[/post]

Anyone ever wrote a mail to Yu Suzuki?

Hmm, to whom to write the license request???

		slinga	Mar 24, 2005
		Looks like Sega Europe has some job openings...... Look at the bottom right corner, specifically for a game designer for a racing game. So here's the plan (since you live in Germany). Dress up in a suit and tie, bring your homebrew racing game, spruce up your resume, and get yourself an interview there. Once you're there for an interview, everyone will be nice to you, even the CEO. That's just how these things work, trust me, I know. I went to an interview once. You can ask them anything, and they'll bend over ass backwards. Suckers. When they give you a job offer (and they will, I mean you programmed a racing game for crying out loud), demand to be paid in SGL libraries. Then post them on the web for all your buddies. And swipe a few USB saturn controllers while you're there.

		antime	Mar 25, 2005
		What the fuck is your problem?

		slinga	Mar 25, 2005
		I'd do it if I lived in Germany. sigh Apologies if I've offended anyone.

		mrkotfw	Mar 25, 2005
		i personally think writing our own libraries is possible. antime has written a few demos without the libraries. now trying to understand the sega vdp2 doc is something else. i already made a "base" of a very bad and very incomplete lib.

		finty101	Mar 29, 2005
		Sega has already liscensed the SMS and MegaDrive for budget release in Brazil, so I would guess they plan to do the same with the Saturn meaning they will keep everything about it close to them.

RockinB

Apr 3, 2005

Originally posted by finty101@Tue, 2005-03-29 @ 10:15 PM

Sega has already liscensed the SMS and MegaDrive for budget release in Brazil, so I would guess they plan to do the same with the Saturn meaning they will keep everything about it close to them.

[post=132283]Quoted post[/post]

Yes, this could happen.

So it's unlikely that SEGA will release the Saturn as public domain, like Atari did with the Jaguar(no problem to release commercial stuff :thumbs-up: ).

But personally I doubt the Saturn will be re-released because it's much too complex for a cheap production. The Dreamcast on a chip got far better chances.

RockinB

May 14, 2005

Originally posted by Rockin'-B@Mon, 2005-04-04 @ 08:24 AM

...

But personally I doubt the Saturn will be re-released because it's much too complex for a cheap production.

...

[post=132487]Quoted post[/post]

I was wrong:

TecToy transparent Saturn...

english translation...

nice...

		Omni	May 14, 2005
		"COMPACT DISC Drive Double Speed with Unknown Functions" Yeah, I'd so buy that...