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iD software: Lost the plot?

Curtis - Sep 9, 2003

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		Curtis	Sep 9, 2003
		I was reading a local gaming magazine (PC Powerplay) today, in particular one of the regular columns. It's the sort of thing written by a jaded gaming journalist fed up with the tripe that passes as "games" in todays market. In this particular one, the writer is ripping into iD for their lack of anything really - especially in regards to Doom 3. Normally I'd not really care about whatever some old peanut has to say about modern gaming, but this one got my attention. Sure iD has had some very special input into the realm of PC gaming over the past decade, but why do they (id) get so much attention today? Doom 3 is still myth. We've had almost no concrete material (screenshots, interviews, gameplay movies) about this game in the three years it has been in development. What we have seen has been good, but not really all that interesting (wow (!) a lighting engine (!) ). I watched one of the HL2 gameplay movies today and it totally blew me away - I mean totally. The level of environment interaction was astounding, the graphics top notch. The Halo 2 preview did the same for me. I'm struggling to remember what I've seen about Doom 3... So my question is this: given the quality of so many upcomming titles, do you really care anymore about whatever crap id comes up with? Have id lost the "connection" with us gamers by keeping us in the dark with this "when it's ready" bollox? Are you fed up with id? Discuss.

		antime	Sep 9, 2003
		Ever since Quake, id have primarily been a technology company and they've been very good at bringing new technologies into their games and the whole gaming industry. The best games using their technology have always been created by other people and I don't expect this to change. But id's technological innovations are reason enough to be excited about the things they release.

		CrazyGoon	Sep 9, 2003
		I'm not fed up with iD I like iD software for their revolutionary first-person shooters such as "Wolfenstein 3D" and "Doom". Their games really do keep a close bond to the "original" FPS scheme which they pioneered back in the day. You speak of the amount of 'quality upcoming titles' availiable to us, compared to 'crap' iD stuff :lol:. Hoping I'll stay on track with this one, here are a few differences between iD software's FPS's and other FPS's that are availiable to us: What iD has: One thing that iD has that other companies don't have is the old concept of "find a weapon kill the monster, find a bigger weapon kill a bigger monster, etc". As well as this, there is also the whole key-card scenario, which I think has also been abandoned. I don't know about anyone else, but doom/wolfenstein is the kind of FPS which I crave killing/ and mass-killing - When I see an enemy, my eyes light up in excitement and I home in on the poor sucker. What other companies have: What other companies have done with the FPS genre is incorperate strategy/ stealth into the games. No longer do we rush around corners with our guns/ chainsaws/ whatever held high hoping their is something to kill. Instead, we sneak around corners, trying to avoid detection. We hide is spots that the enemy can't see us in, an either snipe them or sneek up on them. And hey, there is nothing wrong with this concept either...whatever floats your boat. Another thing that most FPS are doing is using human characters with 'real-life' guns. Sure, gear up in a bullet proof vest, and fling a M-16 over your shoulder, we're going to fight some more terrorists. This in turn creates realism due to the fact that we can recognise the enemy (a human) and the guns. And this seems to be what the people want (due the the increasing amount of FPS with this theme). People would rather kill human representations with mp5's instead of fighting crazy-ass demons with strange made-up weapons (BFG9000 anyone?) :devil So, depending on where your interests lie (realism, or gore), there really is no reason to be fed up with iD's software, and there's no reason why iD softwares titles are not 'quality', just because they have stuck with a well-balanced formula that worked. As far as being fed up about delays in releasing their games (Doom3), I wouldn't really lose any sleep over it. These delays are probably just the cause of releasing information about the game too early. Though, some companies like to release info on upcoming titles early in hope of making a hype - though the bigger the hype, the greater the expectation of the game Square releases info on upcoming titles (they don't really need to anymore, most people can just picture their current "Final Fantasy" with an extra 'I' added to it), and in doing so, add to the hype...not to mention that their games are pre-hyped due to thier name. Anyhoo, that's my $0.02 :banana

		Curtis	Sep 9, 2003
		Fair enough, I guess. I hadn't really considered id to be solely an "engine company", antime. id have proven themselves so pervasive, I can't really come at the idea that they aren't in the business of "cool". I guess what I was trying to say is that the technology showcased by Doom 3 is fast getting old, and I've not even heard a concrete release date for the game or the technology yet. It'll be at least a few more months after the release of Doom 3 that we'll start to see quality games using the engine. Speaking of quality, it's not really my point - at least the quality of game. By the time the D3 engine surfaces, there will be other more interesting technologies on the market. Have a look at the X-Ray engine used in S.T.A.L.K.E.R for impressive rigid-body dynamics, physics and lighting. Or the CryEngine to be used in Far Cry for impressive texturing and large environments. Both are more than just rumors, both are very very impressive. I feel that id is shooting itself in the foot by sitting on D3 and it's engine. 3 years is a long time for something to be vapourware, and it does make me tend to think of other disasters like Duke Nukem Forever and Daikatana (sp?).

		Cloud121	Sep 9, 2003
		As much as I am looking forward to Doom III, the thing I dislike myself about them is that EVERY time they come out with a new engine, you need the world's fastest computer (Power Mac G5 anyone? ) to run it to at least it's medium strength. Let alone it's full power.

		mal	Sep 9, 2003
		If you aren't careful I'll change your title to 'apple fanboy'.

		ExCyber	Sep 9, 2003
		the thing I dislike myself about them is that EVERY time they come out with a new engine, you need the world's fastest computer (Power Mac G5 anyone? ) to run it to at least it's medium strength. Let alone it's full power. That's at least partially because they know others will probably still be making games with it 3 or 4 years down the road, when the raw performance equivalent of today's "world's fastest computer" can be bought at Wal-Mart for $600.

		Carnivol	Sep 9, 2003
		Power Mac G5 anyone? Oh yeah! Gimme one of those (upgraded to the max) Anyway, I think Doom 3 will rock. I liked Half-Life when it got puked out... It had a story, it had some music every once in a while and it also was a game... BUT, I think it was STRONGLY pushed into the skies. (Both graphicly and gameplay) When I watch the HL2 trailers, I don't JUMP AROUND like a monkey. First of all, I think the terrain doesn't look as great as they mumble about... I think the terrain looks like every other so called "well made" terrain in an FPS during the last 3 years. I didn't find the "action" part of the game "that" cool... It was basicly just some dude running around, point'n click to kill enemies... It looked non-challenging. It'll propably suffer from what HL + the expansions does: 1: VERY SHORT 2: VERY EASY 3: The few parts that aint easy becomes easy thanks to incredible quick savinging and loading. Yeah, and I must agree that the FF games and stuff have been overhyped a LOT. If you ask someone if they play RPG games and which ones, FF will be the only answer. I don't think iD have done a crappy job with Doom3... Unfortunatly, I don't got a computer to run it on at the moment... So I haven't even been able to check out the leaked alpha... But if you ask me... I get a much greater atmospheric feeling from the Doom3 videos. I feel more scared and "alone/fucked" when I watch the Doom3 trailers Also, when I watch concept/sketch work for scenarios and events and stuff... the Doom3 ones looks much more interesting. Also, I think the laws of physics is acting a bit better in Doom3 than in HL2 (judging from the videos) What do bother me though is which game has the best AI? I got the feeling that it's HL2, as I've seen some early in-game shots with added information bubbles, explaining why and how and stuff for each enemy on-screen... Unfortunatly, pictures like these are often hyped a bit up (Like, it was actualy just a coincidence that those enemies were right there) Anyway, I'll be getting both, but I got the feeling that Doom3 will capture my heart.

		Gallstaff	Sep 10, 2003
		Hm do you think my computer will be able to run these games well? 512 400 mhz ddr, 1.8 athlon 2500+, Radeon 9500pro, SB live

		Pearl Jammzz	Sep 10, 2003
		it will run it, not at full-strenght though

		Gallstaff	Sep 10, 2003
		I dont plan to have it run at full strength but crap what computer would and I dont mean a mac g5 so cloud can just shut the hell up before he even starts.

		Pearl Jammzz	Sep 10, 2003
		haha, cloud, might wanna lay down all the talk about macs... u mention em in every post.....I just had dejavu, did I ever post tellin cloud to stop talkin about macs so much before sumone kicks his ass before?

		Cloud121	Sep 10, 2003
		Haha, I'm just making a reference there, not going on an Anti-Windows rant like I usually do. Calm down everyone! :lol: :cheers :thumbs-up:

		Tagrineth	Sep 10, 2003
		Originally posted by Cloud121@Sep 10, 2003 @ 06:32 PM Haha, I'm just making a reference there, not going on an Anti-Windows rant like I usually do. Calm down everyone! :lol: :cheers :thumbs-up: G5 is already proven to be most definitely not faster than P4 and Athlon XP.

		dibz	Sep 10, 2003
		Tag's right, sorry Cloud. :agree

		Carnivol	Sep 11, 2003
		The thing about the G5 beeing "not as good" as P4 XP powered computer can´t be "proven" yet... Why? Simple, nothing has been made specificly to take advantage of the new power in the G5... The P4 have had several things optimized for it already, so it could be taken advantage of. Just a little something to add to the Mac thingy... Oh, by the way, as the Mac is a tool, not a gay entertainment utility like a computer is, it´s also worth noting that thanks to the fact that it´s not only special designed software, it´s also special designed hardware, something that makes it easier to work with, basicly powering it 3x better than a PC with the same specs. Anyway, Cloud, you good/familiar with OS-X? I´m sitting on it right now, and I got some HTTP 1.1 compatibility issues + some stupid port issues (Sitting on a school computer, but I got mostly everything running on this machine now, except from the HTTP 1.1 thingy and bittorrent)

		antime	Sep 11, 2003
		Originally posted by Tagrineth+Sep 11, 2003 @ 03:51 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tagrineth @ Sep 11, 2003 @ 03:51 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>G5 is already proven to be most definitely not faster than P4 and Athlon XP.[/b]     Originally posted by Carnivol@Sep 11, 2003 @ 09:26 AM The thing about the G5 beeing "not as good" as P4 XP powered computer can´t be "proven" yet... Now that that's been settled, how about each of you try to explain what it is you're even comparing. <!--QuoteBegin-C arnivol Oh, by the way, as the Mac is a tool, not a gay entertainment utility like a computer is[/quote] The only tool here is you, for making such an utterly idiotic statement.

		Myname	Sep 11, 2003
		Originally posted by Curtis@Sep 9, 2003 @ 07:27 PM Doom 3 is still myth. We've had almost no concrete material (screenshots, interviews, gameplay movies) about this game in the three years it has been in development. Hmm.. That seems a tad overblown. There's been videos, scrennshots and a leaked alpha build, which is more than you'd get with most games. Certainly nothing to suggest it's a 'myth'. In any case, we had no information whatsoever about Half-Life 2 (which I agree looks far more exciting) until a couple of months ago, and that's for a game with a more imminent release.

		Carnivol	Sep 11, 2003
		The only tool here is you, for making such an utterly idiotic statement. Antime, just to mention it, but that wasn´t my words. Many people have said it before me, but I guess the Apple boss was the first (Sadest day for Apple computers is the day Microsoft buys them, then the Macintosh will turn into a entertainment system, instead of serving its main purpose as a tool) Anyway, back to topic... There´s been more material and stuff about Doom 3 than HL2... But still, HL2 is the one most is waiting for (or atleast so it seems) But why? Simple, the generation that mess around the most online, play most games online and stuff like that... those are the ones that first got introduced to FPS games through Half-Life. While Doom is practicly before their time, and worst of all... In some cases even too complicated for them Anyway, my heart belongs to Doom... But I´ll be working with the HL2 engine to make stuff though...

		Curtis	Sep 11, 2003
		Well ok Myname, "myth" is a bit over the top. I had a look around for doom3 stuff after I posted that, and it does look impressive, although I'm not convinced that it'll be playable except of the highest of high end cards. I think what I was driving at is by the time it eventually does get released, there will be many more competeing technologies out there that are as good or better than the engine id releases. As for Macs being meant for tools (read that how you will ), whereas PCs are only for "gay" applications...wow. :confused Every major "serious" Mac application has a port or equivelant release on a PC. There is nothing a Mac can do that a PC can't do as well. Given that the benchmarks for the new Athlon Opteron/FX/Whatever seem to indicate that this new range of chips already massively outperform the fastest Intel chips in at least some (gaming) benchmarks - unoptimised and at a significantly lower overall clockspeed - an obvious logical conclusion is that the G5 series is already looking tired. May or may not be true, but I get the impression that the G5 isn't the major upgrade that everyone was hoping for. Not at that price tag at least.

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