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Help me stop this guy selling sega CD bootlegs
Jedi Master Thrash - Sep 24, 2005

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  Jedi Master Thrash Sep 24, 2005
I've shut this guy down twice now (two differen't member IDs), and now he's popped back up with a new 3rd ID and keeps on doing it. So I decided to elicit some help in keeping this scum off the streets.

Don't worry, I won't post any links or names in this post. From past experience, it seems the mods frown on linking to bootleg auctions because it just gives them publicity.

So PM me if you're interested and want the member-IDs and links.

So I caught this guy selling bootleg Sega CD games on e-bay a few weeks ago. He was selling the sega CD games in DVD cases, and had a speil about how he's a graphic artist and how he digitally modified scans of the cover art to fit into the DVD case and all

Now, none of that is bad. In fact, I think it's a pretty good idea, creating DVD cases for Sega CD games (since a lot of people dislike the cheap plastic ones).

Buuuttt... I thought it was fishy that he had all the "Rare, expensive" games. And then I took a double take on a couple titles... yes, he was selling games that never existed! (except as uncompleted betas), and yes, he was selling Japanese-only releases as US games (probably run through SCDConv)! The only way he could be selling either of those was if they were CD-Rs.

So, that immediately made me suspect of all his other auctions. If he's selling at least two CD-rs, maybe the rest of his "expensive, rare" titles are also CD-Rs.

Here's the other evidence. Nothing on its own necessarily means a bootlegger, but when you add everything up, it just screams at you.

1. All his auctions are 2-day only auctions. I think this is to help get them sold before people like me notice them and report them.

2. Despite the fact that he has cover scans, he has no manuals.

3. The same game comes up again after the prior one finishes (I think he's gone through about 5 rounds with the smae games now).

4. Starting prices are too cheap for the rare, expensive titles.

5. The already mentioned selling of uncompleted betas as if they were full released US games.

6. The already mentioned selling of japanese-only games as if they were full released US games.

7. The same suite of games (in DVD cases) coming up under 3 different users (one after the prior one is shut down).

8. The three different users all have the same location (city, state).

So, anyway, yeah, I reported the first two users, and despite the fact that e-bay can't disclose any information about what happens, both are now "no longer registered users". But now he's popped up again under a brand new username doing the same thing. So it looks like we're just going to have to play whack-a-mole until he finally leanrs his lesson... (and moves over to yahoo auctions with the rest of the bootleggers... argh).

Thanks,

JMT.

 lordofduct Sep 24, 2005
Yeah... I know who you are talking about... I've reported him myself too, never purchased from him as a smart person could tell that if you have 40 copies of VAY caseless and no instruction manuals and advertise how you have 40 and then call it rare... obviousily a bootleg! I hate these kinds of scum bags! I even emailed him and he seems not to think there is anything wrong with doing it either.

Ebay continually lets him start new accounts though... WTF!

I see he has stopped advertising how he owns several copies though... probably cause he keeps getting shut down.

Does he only except paypal? I can't remember... if he excepts money orders I'll place a bid, tell him I only can do money order and get a bit more info on the bastard!

Really I'm willing to take the negative feedback just to get the info and to put bootlegger on his feedback... I've DL'd games before, but turn a profit on them? NEVER!

 lordofduct Sep 24, 2005
i have this strange feeling i just messaged you on Ebay... I saw someone was bidding on one of his bootlegs and I messaged them telling them not to pay.

 stack99 Sep 24, 2005
I know of this guy, he is bad news, I have emailed him a while back, and he never admitted they were copies, this guy has been selling them, over and over, he wants to get top dollar for the one game he is selling... bastard.

 antime Sep 24, 2005
You could always report this person to the ESA... or the IFCC.... If the games are sent by mail, file a complaint with the US Postal Inspection Service.

 racketboy Sep 24, 2005
i wouldn't mind having his DVD templates

 schi0249 Sep 24, 2005
I emailed him once, and he flat out told me they were copies. I told him how that is illegal and against eBay rules, but he doesn't seem to care.

 Jedi Master Thrash Sep 24, 2005

  
	
	

		
		

			(Can someone explain to me how VGMuseum manages to circumvent my pop-up blockers??? Argh I hate that)


It's probably using JavaScript to circumvent your pop-up blockers. If you're using Firefox, go to Tools --> Options... --> and uncheck Enable JavaScript.

 genisus man Sep 25, 2005
err...ok...ebay should have banned him the second/third time. I'd love to take a look at his feedback. Maybe he got a 1 percent score out of 100! Or maybe people are too stupid to realize the facts.

I think I saw him once there, too.

 Jedi Master Thrash Sep 25, 2005
Ok.... someone please tell me how my post's content (from 10:30am) got removed, and someone's reply to my post got entered as if that reply was my post.

It's like a mod accidentally did a reply to my post by using the "edit" function so the reply just overwrite my original or something.

Anyway, replying to the reply, do any websites actually work these days if you disable javascript?

Actually his feedback was always pretty good (high 90's), but there was never any feedback for the bootleg items. He didn't start selling the bootleg items until after he had high feedback, and then his account was shut down within a week of him selling them, so he never had a chance to get feedback.

 KuKzz Sep 25, 2005
And why do you care ? There are tons of ebay sellers who sells pirated things, and you won't stop them.

 Amon Sep 25, 2005
I had just as much luck trying to shut down a guy that was selling bootleg copies of the tv series Witch Hunter Robin. I emailed all the info I could to the copyright holders. They told me that all the info was sent to their legal department and I never heard from them again. But best of luck to you all, this guy shouldnt profit over this at all.

 genisus man Sep 25, 2005

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by KuKzz@Sun, 2005-09-25 @ 11:31 AM



And why do you care ? There are tons of ebay sellers who sells pirated things, and you won't stop them.




[post=139925]Quoted post[/post]


let me guess? Your one of those pirate sellers? Why do you care if he cares? He doesn't have to give reasons, anyway.

 ExCyber Sep 25, 2005

  
	
	

		
		

			And why do you care ? There are tons of ebay sellers who sells pirated things, and you won't stop them.

This is not just "selling pirated things", as he's passing off his copies as rare originals. It's counterfeiting and flat-out fraud against the buyer.

 VertigoXX Sep 25, 2005
There's a BIG difference between selling CDR copies for a few bucks to cover the disc and shipping, and going on eBay and trying to pass off a CDR copy as a rare original for $40 or more. It's not the act of selling a CDR we take issue with, it's the fraud involved as he tries to make the buyers think they are originals.

 Jedi Master Thrash Sep 26, 2005

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by KuKzz@Sun, 2005-09-25 @ 02:31 PM



And why do you care ? There are tons of ebay sellers who sells pirated things, and you won't stop them.




[post=139925]Quoted post[/post]


I think it's a worthwhile question in some aspects.

ExCyber and VertigoXX have given some good reasons (about the deception aspect).

There's also just the ethical standpoint of disobeying the law, regardless of how right or just you feel the law is (enforcing laws maintains social order and prevents chaos. Doing your part in obeying the laws you disagree with helps stop people from disobeying the laws you do agree with).

I don't know if it's my stupidity or "higher moral standards" ( :huh you pick), but when I really like something, I want to own an original. It really makes no sense sometimes. I mean, I can and do play all the retro games on emulators. So why do I still seek out and purchase real copies of the ones I really like?

There's a rare expensive SegaCD game I want. I know I'll have to pay 100$ someday to get a copy. So it upsets me when other people can settle for (or get conned into) a bootleg for 10-20$. And I want to make sure that when I do get a copy, that it's original.

And someday if I choose to sell a rare expensive SegaCD game, I want to get that 100$ for it. Maybe I'll get less. Maybe more. If I get more, I deserve it because I made an investment. Or I "held on" to the game long enough. So it would upset me if the market got flooded with bootlegs, bringing the price down on the originals. And someone with lower moral standards gets to make 99% profit on an unlimited supply (he can keep burning as long as people are buying), while I just have one copy that I might not make any profit on.

I think the people it hurts most are the people who own original copies. But it also hurts people who want to buy original copies.

The arguments about making sure the developers get their cut don't really apply, since this is all second hand market, and the publishers and distributers probably get more money out of a new game purchase than the developers anyway.

I actually prefer buying all media on second-hand markets for that purpose. I dislike the evil distributors and publishers of movies/music/games who tell the consumers what they want and what they will buy (rather than the other way around) and weigh their strangle hold on the industry and stores and advertising and take all the profits and leave the musicians and developers struggling. :rant

At least if I buy it from some kid off e-bay, I know exactly where the money goes (probably drugs, argh).

Or maybe I'm just full of it. :/

 ExCyber Sep 26, 2005
Some people just don't want to play the "collector" game. That's how it goes. When someone makes a copy, your original is still an original. If some people value the original less because they only want to play the game, that's essentially just market forces at work. However, I think you'll find that fellow collectors will continue to pay top dollar for the privilege of owning an original. The price may even go up if the work or author becomes more popular (even if it's because of emulators and bootlegs). If sophisticated counterfeits come in, things get more complicated, but I think if you look at the Neo-Geo scene you'll see that even that won't dissuade hardcore collectors from paying high prices.


  
	
	

		
		

			The arguments about making sure the developers get their cut don't really apply, since this is all second hand market, and the publishers and distributers probably get more money out of a new game purchase than the developers anyway.

AFAIK, the developers have usually already been paid by the time a game is released. However, that payment is essentially an advance from the publisher, who then needs to recover that cost if they want to fund the next game. In a sense, when you buy a game, you're paying for production of its sequel or successor.

 emazur Sep 26, 2005
Fight fire with fire: bid on his shit, and then don't pay. Continually create new accounts and repeat process. He will lose money this way, won't he?

 Amon Sep 27, 2005

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by emazur@Mon, 2005-09-26 @ 08:33 PM



Fight fire with fire: bid on his shit, and then don't pay. Continually create new accounts and repeat process. He will lose money this way, won't he?




[post=139972]Quoted post[/post]


Thats a slow way to make him lose money, mind you it all depends on his listing options. There is always a chance that the bid would be out bid by someone else making them pay more for a fake item. Ebay should just ban his ip and stuff like that...

 ExCyber Sep 27, 2005

  
	
	

		
		

			There is always a chance that the bid would be out bid by someone else making them pay more for a fake item.

Since the idea is to use throwaway accounts and not pay, I don't see what stops you from setting an absurdly high maximum bid...

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