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Ratamahatta - Jun 22, 2002

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		cww80	Jun 26, 2002
		Quote Zero 9: Most of the multi console games coming out are going to be on Xbox first, simply because PS2 graphics jsut don't cut it on Xbox. Quote Zero 9: What does it matter what the controller looks like? It's how well it works playing games. And it does this well, after about hte first 5 minutes you use it, you forget thay you're holding a controller in the first place. Quote Zero 9: I don't think I need to mention that the "Japanese" controller is also out in the US, and there are several licensed 3rd party controllers? Yeah didnt Metal Gear Solid 2 and Silent Hill come out first on PS2,first...The Xbox controller is without question one of the worst game controllers ever..the face buttons are way to close together,not to mention its bulky and heavy(as far as game controllers go)how you can think its a good controller is beyond me(its probably blind loyalty)you shouldnt have to wait for a better controller to come out...nor should you have to buy 3rd party controllers...if M$ had done their research and designed a better controller to begin with this wouldnt be an issue now...would it

		Arakon	Jun 26, 2002
		I'm impressed that you managed to fill NINE fucking pages full of garbage system wars. I've taken apart plenty of systems, and owned all of the below or still own them. my views: - dreamcast is a great system, good amount of great games, died due to shitty marketing. good hardware overall, well planned and good quality components. controller is pretty mixed.. shitty d-pad, analog stick is slippery for people with moist hands when playing. otherwise good fit, good buttons. - ps2 is a hardware-wise very poor and old system, with the dvd drive being of extremely low quality. high failure rate there. of course it has more games, but that's cause it's nearly 3 damn years old. games range from absolutely awesome to total shit, with a huge amount of shit games (just like PSX.. how many out of over 2000 games can be truly good?). Sold mostly with hype, not actual quality (hardware-wise). good games came later. too damn many companies pumping out games for it. Controller is quite good, the only one with a decent d-pad (talking ONLY current-gen systems. saturn pad owns them all). L1+L2+R1+R2 combinations cause major finger cramps, tho. - xbox is VERY new on the market (as in, the local newbie). it's the ultimate hacker system, mame-x and upcoming snes and genesis emus rock, along with the divx player. the games range from absolutely awesome (rallisport challenge and halo) to absolutely shit. somewhat large amount of shit games. good hardware, except for the shitty quality of the mainboard. the cheapest system on the market now, considering what it offers (especially in USA. europe still pays ~280 USD). Controller is surprisingly good, once you got used to it. D-pad is so-so, buttons rather sucky, but very good for racing and FPS. - gamecube is hardware wise a very nice system, good graphics abilities, totally shitty hacking/homebrewn abilities. a handful of quite good games.. unfortunately, a handful of games overall. nearly nothing to offer after you beat the current set of games (which doesn't take all that long). same mistake as n64 there, just that the hardware is good this time around. few expansion possibilities, and nintendo seems to be sleeping.. they gotta bring out modem/BBA and other extensions ASAP. awesome controller, except for the d-pad, which belongs on a GBA, not console controller. very smooth fit, good analog buttons. most likely total hell for fighting games, tho. I'm off to play Metal Slug on my xbox.

		gamefoo21	Jun 26, 2002
		arakon i am amazed that you can just simply wrap this entire thread up in one post good job. do you know if its possible to pop out the p3 thats in it and toss in a faster one just to keep it running cooler?

		cww80	Jun 26, 2002
		Quote Arakon: - ps2 is a hardware-wise very poor and old system, with the dvd drive being of extremely low quality. high failure rate there. of course it has more games, but that's cause it's nearly 3 damn years old. games range from absolutely awesome to total shit, with a huge amount of shit games (just like PSX.. how many out of over 2000 games can be truly good?). Sold mostly with hype, not actual quality (hardware-wise). good games came later. too damn many companies pumping out games for it. Controller is quite good, the only one with a decent d-pad (talking ONLY current-gen systems. saturn pad owns them all). L1+L2+R1+R2 combinations cause major finger cramps, tho. Quote Arakon: - xbox is VERY new on the market (as in, the local newbie). it's the ultimate hacker system, mame-x and upcoming snes and genesis emus rock, along with the divx player. the games range from absolutely awesome (rallisport challenge and halo) to absolutely shit. somewhat large amount of shit games. good hardware, except for the shitty quality of the mainboard. the cheapest system on the market now, considering what it offers (especially in USA. europe still pays ~280 USD). Controller is surprisingly good, once you got used to it. D-pad is so-so, buttons rather sucky, but very good for racing and FPS. first off...the Playstation 2 is only a little over 2years old...it launched in japan march 4th 2000...it wont be 2 till october in the us...ive never had a single problem with my ps2...yeah the xbox was hyped and its still not selling well...like i said earlier if theres crap games you can just avoid them...i do agree with you that the saturn controller owns all other game controllers...what do i care if xbox will be able to play snes or genesis games...i already have emulators on my computer theres no need for it...and the controller is just awful...youd think with all that money M$ would be able to design a good controller...

cww80

Jun 26, 2002

Originally posted by gamefoo21@June 26 2002,19:37

arakon i am amazed that you can just simply wrap this entire thread up in one post good job. do you know if its possible to pop out the p3 thats in it and toss in a faster one just to keep it running cooler?

would you like Arakon to bend over...

		gamefoo21	Jun 26, 2002
		Ps2 = overpriced, overhyped, outdated, money maker. Xbox = underpriced, hyped, brandnew, ms. its true microsoft is loosing money on the xbox itself thats why accessories and games are expensive. when it first came out ms was loosing 50 bucks a pop on them and then they dropped there price by 100. sony is raking in the cash cause it prolly only costs them 50 bucks to slap a Ps2 together. I would take Xbox over Ps2 cause there will be a Ps2 emu for Xbox sooner or later. But i really want a GC don't ask me why but i do i just love it i rented it, one fun little thing.

cww80

Jun 26, 2002

Originally posted by gamefoo21@June 26 2002,20:10

Ps2 = overpriced, overhyped, outdated, money maker.

Xbox = underpriced, hyped, brandnew, ms.

its true microsoft is loosing money on the xbox itself thats why accessories and games are expensive. when it first came out ms was loosing 50 bucks a pop on them and then they dropped there price by 100. sony is raking in the cash cause it prolly only costs them 50 bucks to slap a Ps2 together. I would take Xbox over Ps2 cause there will be a Ps2 emu for Xbox sooner or later. But i really want a GC don't ask me why but i do i just love it i rented it, one fun little thing.

it wouldnt be possible to emulate the PS2 on the Xbox...M$ will get nowhere losing money on the Xbox...

Zero 9

Jun 26, 2002

Originally posted by cww80+June 25 2002,17:59--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cww80 @ June 25 2002,17:59)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by Zero 9@June 26 2002,17:16

<!--QuoteBegin-cw
w80

@June 24 2002,21:39

Quote Zero 9:

LOL, that is because MS gives you quality hardware and they lose ~$150 per Xbox sold...

PS2 costs about $180 to make and the Xbox costs about $350.

yeah that sounds like a killer business strategy...

Yeah, a good business strategy is to give your customers quality hardware, not a hunk of crap (hardware wise only, don't start flaming).

is that all you can talk about is hardware...its all fine and good that its powerful,but it isnt helping it...PS2 continues to outsell it...also...do you still play your saturn...or are the graphics and hardware not good enough for you...

[/b][/quote]

I was responding to your post about hardware, are you sad or what?

Zero 9

Jun 26, 2002

Originally posted by DBOY@June 25 2002,18:05

Maybe I'm crazy but I can't see any difference in average game quality between X-BOX and Atari Jaguar.

Is that why the average score for a PS2 game on IGN is 6, and the average score for an Xbox game is 7.5?

Zero 9

Jun 26, 2002

Originally posted by Moon Knight@June 25 2002,18:20

Well it's all in how you like your games, there are about 0 games so far for XBOX i want to play, but if your into shooter's and MMORPG's than XBOX is the system for you, they just released Morrowind and its awesome, but im not into MMORPGs sorry. i like my online RPG's to be small so i know the players. and god knows Morrowind will own the POS game titled Final Fantasy ONLINE.. god im just waiting in anticipation of how bad that games gonna be, oh dont get me wrong it will sell.. but if you need a job, apply for FFONLINE tech support before it hits shelves cuz they will need YOU (points)

Uh, Morrowind isnt' online, you could consider it a Massive RPG, but not massively multiplayer online rpg.

Zero 9

Jun 26, 2002

Originally posted by cww80@June 25 2002,18:30

Quote Zero 9:

Most of the multi console games coming out are going to be on Xbox first, simply because PS2 graphics jsut don't cut it on Xbox.

Quote Zero 9:

What does it matter what the controller looks like? It's how well it works playing games. And it does this well, after about hte first 5 minutes you use it, you forget thay you're holding a controller in the first place.

Quote Zero 9:

I don't think I need to mention that the "Japanese" controller is also out in the US, and there are several licensed 3rd party controllers?

Yeah didnt Metal Gear Solid 2 and Silent Hill come out first on PS2,first...The Xbox controller is without question one of the worst game controllers ever..the face buttons are way to close together,not to mention its bulky and heavy(as far as game controllers go)how you can think its a good controller is beyond me(its probably blind loyalty)you shouldnt have to wait for a better controller to come out...nor should you have to buy 3rd party controllers...if M$ had done their research and designed a better controller to begin with this wouldnt be an issue now...would it

I wish you would read my posts more carefully I said the ones that are coming out, not already out.

And the Xbox controller, as stated before is great for all games that aren't Tony Hawk or Fighting. If you would have played any Xbox games for an extended period of time, you would notice that your hands are neither sore, and yo don't have any blisters. The "Controller S" is good for Tony Hawk/Fighters because it has much better buttons for those games.

cww80

Jun 26, 2002

Originally posted by Zero 9+June 26 2002,20:28--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zero 9 @ June 26 2002,20:28)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DBOY@June 25 2002,18:05

Maybe I'm crazy but I can't see any difference in average game quality between X-BOX and Atari Jaguar.

Is that why the average score for a PS2 game on IGN is 6, and the average score for an Xbox game is 7.5?[/b][/quote]

first off theres more PS2 games than Xbox games...so thats why...second off who cares about reviews play the games yourself then decide...

		cww80	Jun 26, 2002
		Quote Zero 9: I wish you would read my posts more carefully I said the ones that are coming out, not already out. you got me there,but youve made that same mistake before...damn...so many people posting its hard to keep up...wouldnt you agree Zero 9

		Gallstaff	Jun 26, 2002
		goddamn it i can't take it anymore... i'm gonna go insane ... ANTI-GALLSTAFF driving me crazy.... violent arm spasms

Zero 9

Jun 26, 2002

Originally posted by cww80+June 25 2002,19:31--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cww80 @ June 25 2002,19:31)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by Zero 9@June 26 2002,20:28

<!--QuoteBegin-DB
OY

@June 25 2002,18:05

Maybe I'm crazy but I can't see any difference in average game quality between X-BOX and Atari Jaguar.

Is that why the average score for a PS2 game on IGN is 6, and the average score for an Xbox game is 7.5?

first off theres more PS2 games than Xbox games...so thats why...second off who cares about rerviews play the games yourself then decide...[/b][/quote]

Just proving a point man, you don't need to go on and on about this, this iscussion is pretty much over. A certain other person has managed to get all this duscussion of ours into one post, and it is needless to continue.

And yeah, I made the same mistake before also with the reading posts, because I was skimming them cuz there are so many.

cww80

Jun 26, 2002

Originally posted by Gallstaff@June 26 2002,20:35

goddamn it i can't take it anymore... i'm gonna go insane ...

ANTI-GALLSTAFF driving me crazy.... *violent arm spasms*

lmao...

Arakon

Jun 26, 2002

arakon i am amazed that you can just simply wrap this entire thread up in one post good job. do you know if its possible to pop out the p3 thats in it and toss in a faster one just to keep it running cooler?

no, the cpu is a custom one.

ive never had a single problem with my ps2

then you are lucky. I've seen more PS2 lasers die than I care to count.

yeah the xbox was hyped and its still not selling well.

ps2 hype was all based on psx. xbox had no system before it by M$.

what do i care if xbox will be able to play snes or genesis games...i already have emulators on my computer theres no need for it

you might not, but many do. it's by far the cheapest and cleanest solution to playing those on a TV.

and the controller is just awful...youd think with all that money M$ would be able to design a good controller...

the controller is quite good, once you get used to it. it does take some time for that. I used to think the same, but it's really quite playable for many game types.

Nadius

Jun 27, 2002

@June 25 2002,18:05

Maybe I'm crazy but I can't see any difference in average game quality between X-BOX and Atari Jaguar.

Is that why the average score for a PS2 game on IGN is 6, and the average score for an Xbox game is 7.5?

first off theres more PS2 games than Xbox games...so thats why...second off who cares about reviews play the games yourself then decide...[/b][/quote]

But it's an average... what does the number of games have to do with the average, other than the fact that the x-box has less, but more than likely better games?

ExCyber

Jun 27, 2002

Companies can create their games in almost half the time as PS2, and with better graphics and more time to polish.

I seriously doubt it. I've not worked in the industry, but my sense of things is that development time depends much more on the management of the dev team and the complexity of the game than on the target hardware. There's a hell of a lot more to making a game than programming - you need core designers putting together concept demos and writing design docs, artists drawing/modeling characters and environments, QA people playtesting the game, programmers writing level/script editing tools, etc.

Most of the multi console games coming out are going to be on Xbox first

I was specifically referring to Konami and Capcom. AFAIK, most of their multiplatform games are either slated to come out at roughly the same time as their PS2 counterparts, or the PS2 versions are already released.

What does it matter what the controller looks like? It's how well it works playing games.

Tell that to Microsoft, they're the ones who decided that it needed a big green logo blob and crappy buttons.

And it does this well, after about hte first 5 minutes you use it, you forget thay you're holding a controller in the first place.

Maybe I've only played games that aren't designed properly, but I doubt it. I find the button layout of the standard Xbox controller highly uncomfortable, and don't like the feel of the buttons either.

		gamefoo21	Jun 27, 2002
		if xbox had 2 games one shit and one awesome. one got 1 and the other got 10. it would equal out to 5. but the ps2 has hundreds of shit games and inbetween and the good ones are just enough to keep the average somewhat high. i say if the xbox keeps its general amount of games out for it restricted to qaulity games it will do great instead of doing sony style and flooding with shit games and throwing in the good ones to keep the fans around.... its quality not qauntity that will make or break, sony is getting a bad name for shit games, xbox games are all very good and very high quality so far and bound to get better over time as programmers get used to it. on another mb there was the discussion about which system was better from a programmers point of view it went from the best to worst like this xbox(pc made custom), gamecube, Ps2. And i can't believe it costs sony that much to make that pos system they use the cheapest parts going and they have been hammering em out for the last two years... the only saving grace of the ps2 in my eyes is the fact it plays ps1 games...

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