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Ammut - Nov 4, 2003

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    Des-ROW Nov 11, 2003 
s'more Sony news....


  
Originally posted by Tagrineth@Nov 11, 2003 @ 11:43 AM

Really? Wow, that's amazing, I've never heard that.

Actually it's closer to 7-10 million.


Indeed, it's closer to 10Million, and not 20Million, especially considering that 10Million pps is NAOMI2's peak polygon drawing performance.


  
I meant Xbox's CPU was underpowered compared to the rest of the system. GCN's CPU is very well balanced, and works well with Flipper (rather than being an accessory like XCPU).

I haven't seen any real performance comparisons with optimisations, but I'd guess with full SSE vs. full paired computation it's a close race... though keep in mind paired singles can be used more often than SSE optimisations.


I like the Gekko better than the XCPU, still, I believe that the XCPU performs near to 2.93GFLOPs, while the Gekko has a 1.94GFLOPs peak...


  
And after others pointed it out for the first post, I replied and corrected myself. Even after that she wouldn't drop it and had to get all "look at the me I'm the god of knowledge and all perfect" with her comment.


"Goddess".

    it290 Nov 11, 2003 
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I like the Gekko better than the XCPU, still, I believe that the XCPU performs near to 2.93GFLOPs, while the Gekko has a 1.94GFLOPs peak...


You do realize that FLOPS is not the end-all-be-all of performance, right?

    Des-ROW Nov 11, 2003 
s'more Sony news....

Yes yes, I was just stating!

    muffinman943 Nov 11, 2003 
s'more Sony news....

thanx racketboy 4 tha pics, anyway, playstation2 has the greatest games by far, I mean, the gamcube has great games too, but the umm "unadultlike themes" really turn me off. This is only because i like survival horror games, and gamecube has survival horror games, but ps2 has all or the ones the gamecube has too.Silent hill 3 will never be toppled. since the ps2's price is dropping its price soon, this will put the final nails on the gamecube coffin, but nintendo couldnt care less since hey are working on the thing that will be revealed this spring and they already ported mario 128 to tthe gamecube 2.

but seriously nintendo will launch a gameboy called gameboyxtreme or something and it will be PS vs. N64 all over again, and cloud will BE DELIGHTED!! wned

    Alexvrb Nov 11, 2003 
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Originally posted by Tagrineth@Nov 11, 2003 @ 04:43 PM

PowerVR's architecture eliminates pixel overdraw. You're still transforming all the polys in the scene.

I meant Xbox's CPU was underpowered compared to the rest of the system. GCN's CPU is very well balanced, and works well with Flipper (rather than being an accessory like XCPU).

I haven't seen any real performance comparisons with optimisations, but I'd guess with full SSE vs. full paired computation it's a close race... though keep in mind paired singles can be used more often than SSE optimisations.


The SH4 can handle around 10 million, so that's not the bottleneck. So what I was getting at was that its hard to do a 1:1 comparison of "how many polys" a DC is pushing vs say a PS2. How many polys would the PS2 be rendering if it was rendering a scene identical to one on the DC? See what I was getting at here?

Now as for your continued belief that the Xbox is unbalanced, it is actually quite balanced - for a gaming console. It was built with PC parts, but it was not built to be a PC. If the Gekko is a little slower than the XCPU (overall), and the Flipper is a little slower than the XGPU (overall), then Gamecube is roughly as unbalanced as the Xbox is. FLOPS and MIPS aside, the XCPU still beats the Gekko. I highly doubt Nintendo thought they were going to beat MS on performance... but as I've already said the GCN is a great console, and I don't feel either of them is unbalanced or has an underpowered CPU, for their given purpose.

    Ammut Nov 11, 2003 
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Sheesh, where's Mal's classic 'get back on topic' when you need it...

Only on SX can a new console concept brew into an all out console flamefest with specs galore

I'm with Gallstaff on this one though, isn't it all about the games? I mean really, so what if a console can push 14927591 polys/sec with a 92:9 compression ratio if all it can run is Pong?

A console should be rated by its games, period.

Maybe you guys spend too much time looking up these stats and not enough time playing the games. But in my experience, the best looking games come out not by pushing the system specs to the max but by "tricking" the system into doing what it wasn't meant to do. Many developers can use all resources, its the few that use them wisely that matter. So unless you try counting polygons on screen while playing games, who cares? If it looks pretty, its all good.


  
Originally posted by Des-ROW@Nov 10, 2003 @ 08:57 PM


  
And after others pointed it out for the first post, I replied and corrected myself. Even after that she wouldn't drop it and had to get all "look at the me I'm the god of knowledge and all perfect" with her comment.


"Goddess".


thanks for that great comeback, made me laugh

But back to being on topic, I think the release of the PSP will push up Nintendo's next gen Game Boy, probably releasing it 6 months to 1 year after. Nintendo will have to incorporate the Psp's best features and run with them in order to keep Sony out of their stronghold. GBA titles will probably look weak in comparison so Nintendo will hopefully come up with some *gasp* new content for its handheld and slice prices further to keep its userbase happy. All in all, I think the first 2 years the PSP comes out will be good for both sides...yay for capitalist competition.

oh,and just so you original GCers know, Indigo is just the fruitier way of saying purple

---Ammut

    Des-ROW Nov 11, 2003 
s'more Sony news....


  
Originally posted by Ammut+Nov 11, 2003 @ 11:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ammut @ Nov 11, 2003 @ 11:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Des-ROW@Nov 10, 2003 @ 08:57 PM


  
And after others pointed it out for the first post, I replied and corrected myself. Even after that she wouldn't drop it and had to get all "look at the me I'm the god of knowledge and all perfect" with her comment.


"Goddess".


thanks for that great comeback, made me laugh [/b][/quote]

I am glad it did! ^^!

    ratfish Nov 11, 2003 
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Originally posted by muffinman943+Nov 11, 2003 @ 06:42 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(muffinman943 @ Nov 11, 2003 @ 06:42 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> since the ps2's price is dropping its price soon, this will put the final nails on the gamecube coffin, but nintendo couldnt care less since hey are working on the thing that will be revealed this spring and they already ported mario 128 to tthe gamecube 2.[/b]



Oh yes, I forgot, because Sony is dropping the price of their fanboy box of delight, it will automatically make Nintendo retreat into the caves with the GameCube and lead to their slow grisly death. The world will be Sony's for the taking.

Great market analysis there. I like how you backed it up with facts too.

<!--QuoteBegin-m
uffinman943@Nov 11, 2003 @ 06:42 PM

but seriously nintendo will launch a gameboy called gameboyxtreme or something and it will be PS vs. N64 all over again, and cloud will BE DELIGHTED!![/quote]

Ahem! GameBoy Elite, thank you very much.

    Cloud121 Nov 12, 2003 
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Originally posted by muffinman943@Nov 11, 2003 @ 07:42 PM

thanx racketboy 4 tha pics, anyway, playstation2 has the greatest games by far, I mean, the gamcube has great games too, but the umm "unadultlike themes" really turn me off. This is only because i like survival horror games, and gamecube has survival horror games, but ps2 has all or the ones the gamecube has too.Silent hill 3 will never be toppled. since the ps2's price is dropping its price soon, this will put the final nails on the gamecube coffin, but nintendo couldnt care less since hey are working on the thing that will be revealed this spring and they already ported mario 128 to tthe gamecube 2.

but seriously nintendo will launch a gameboy called gameboyxtreme or something and it will be PS vs. N64 all over again, and Cloud will BE DELIGHTED!! wned


It'll be Phantasy Star vs Nintendo 64 all over again? Um.. yeah... Oh sorry, I consider PS the abbreviation for "Phantasy Star", are you talking the PSX? Heh... Well... I wouldn't really care. My Nomad is all I need. :cheers :thumbs-up: :bow :bow

    it290 Nov 12, 2003 
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I really hope that Nintendo isn't foolish enough to make the type of mistakes they did with the N64 once again. I think their best bet is to lower the price on the GBA as low as they can, and then follow up by developing a new GB, releasing it when the time is right. It'll be a hard fight for Sony though; even though a lot of people are psyched about the PSP, the name 'GameBoy' carries even more weight than the name 'NES' (or 'Nintendo') did way back when.

    Tagrineth Nov 12, 2003 
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Originally posted by Alexvrb@Nov 11, 2003 @ 10:55 PM



  
The SH4 can handle around 10 million, so that's not the bottleneck. So what I was getting at was that its hard to do a 1:1 comparison of "how many polys" a DC is pushing vs say a PS2. How many polys would the PS2 be rendering if it was rendering a scene identical to one on the DC? See what I was getting at here?


Yeah, the SH-4 can handle around 10 million, and the setup engine in the PVR2DC can handle about 7 million, but again, PVR2DC's tile-based rendering DOES NOT AFFECT POLYGON COUNTS. They would render the same number of polygons because PVR2DC does culling AFTER receiving all the scene's polys.


  
Now as for your continued belief that the Xbox is unbalanced, it is actually quite balanced - for a gaming console. It was built with PC parts, but it was not built to be a PC. If the Gekko is a little slower than the XCPU (overall), and the Flipper is a little slower than the XGPU (overall), then Gamecube is roughly as unbalanced as the Xbox is. FLOPS and MIPS aside, the XCPU still beats the Gekko. I highly doubt Nintendo thought they were going to beat MS on performance... but as I've already said the GCN is a great console, and I don't feel either of them is unbalanced or has an underpowered CPU, for their given purpose.


Another wrench in teh workin'z: Gekko is PowerPC-based, so it's more efficient with what it has, too. And I'd still like to see confirmation that any Gekko GFLOP numbers are using optimisations like paired singles.


  
It'll be Phantasy Star vs Nintendo 64 all over again? Um.. yeah... Oh sorry, I consider PS the abbreviation for "Phantasy Star", are you talking the PSX? Heh... Well... I wouldn't really care. My Nomad is all I need.


See, the fuckin' hilarious thing about this post is, PSX != the first PlayStation.

    Jurai Nov 12, 2003 
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Originally posted by Tagrineth+Nov 12, 2003 @ 04:27 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tagrineth @ Nov 12, 2003 @ 04:27 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Alexvrb@Nov 11, 2003 @ 10:55 PM



  
The SH4 can handle around 10 million, so that's not the bottleneck. So what I was getting at was that its hard to do a 1:1 comparison of "how many polys" a DC is pushing vs say a PS2. How many polys would the PS2 be rendering if it was rendering a scene identical to one on the DC? See what I was getting at here?


Yeah, the SH-4 can handle around 10 million, and the setup engine in the PVR2DC can handle about 7 million, but again, PVR2DC's tile-based rendering DOES NOT AFFECT POLYGON COUNTS. They would render the same number of polygons because PVR2DC does culling AFTER receiving all the scene's polys.


  
Now as for your continued belief that the Xbox is unbalanced, it is actually quite balanced - for a gaming console. It was built with PC parts, but it was not built to be a PC. If the Gekko is a little slower than the XCPU (overall), and the Flipper is a little slower than the XGPU (overall), then Gamecube is roughly as unbalanced as the Xbox is. FLOPS and MIPS aside, the XCPU still beats the Gekko. I highly doubt Nintendo thought they were going to beat MS on performance... but as I've already said the GCN is a great console, and I don't feel either of them is unbalanced or has an underpowered CPU, for their given purpose.


Another wrench in teh workin'z: Gekko is PowerPC-based, so it's more efficient with what it has, too. And I'd still like to see confirmation that any Gekko GFLOP numbers are using optimisations like paired singles.


  
It'll be Phantasy Star vs Nintendo 64 all over again? Um.. yeah... Oh sorry, I consider PS the abbreviation for "Phantasy Star", are you talking the PSX? Heh... Well... I wouldn't really care. My Nomad is all I need.


See, the fuckin' hilarious thing about this post is, PSX != the first PlayStation. [/b][/quote]

yer so cute when your being technical


    Alexvrb Nov 12, 2003 
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Yeah you're right. You know how those Macs rock teh poor PCs.

    Scared0o0Rabbit Nov 12, 2003 
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:wanker if it has good games I'll buy it and play them, if not I won't. Who cares how pretty they look, or how powerful the system is, it's all about how fun they are.

    Tagrineth Nov 12, 2003 
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Originally posted by Alexvrb@Nov 12, 2003 @ 05:34 PM

Yeah you're right. You know how those Macs rock teh poor PCs.


Actually, comically enough, x87 FPU's are so braindead that PowerPC has long been a much more suitable platform for floating-point math (READ: 3D CALCULATION). Practically speaking, PowerPC processors are a good bit more efficient and powerful than x86 cores... of course, that means shit when the x86 core is 50+% higher clocked. The efficiency advantage isn't THAT great.

    Alexvrb Nov 12, 2003 
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Oh yeah, and PVR series 2 is a tile-based deferred renderer. It uses HSR to cull non-visible polys.

I agree that it is about the games, I've never said otherwise. I didn't attack a console for its hardware. I simply stood up and defended it.

    Tagrineth Nov 12, 2003 
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Originally posted by Alexvrb@Nov 12, 2003 @ 06:22 PM

Oh yeah, and PVR series 2 is a tile-based deferred renderer. It uses HSR to cull non-visible polys.


It culls non-visible pixels. Not polys. Polys are still fully calculated. How do you think it knows which pixels to cull? I could go into more detail as to exactly what it does, if you want.

    ratfish Nov 12, 2003 
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Originally posted by Tagrineth@Nov 12, 2003 @ 02:27 PM

PSX != the first PlayStation


Code: 
  
using System namespace vs_thread { class acronym { public void Change(string newPSX = the new PlayStationX); { PSX = newPSX; Console.WriteLine("The fancy new PS2 with a CD burner is called {0}", newPSX); } } class ps_jibbajabba { static void Main() { string PSX = the old Playstation project name; string PS = how Cloud abbreviates Phantasy Star; Console.WriteLine("Before the fancy new PS2 with a CD burner, the PSX referred to {0}", PSX); acronym confused = new acronym; confused.Change(); } } } }

   Tagrineth Nov 12, 2003 
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ratfish... you are so lame XD

    IBarracudaI Nov 12, 2003 
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He spent time writing that?!

:lol: :lol:


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