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any body remember ff7 being converted....
Shitface - May 21, 2003

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  antime Jun 1, 2003
Based on those screenshots, it might well use the rotational planes. Since you have two planes, you can place them side by side and change the parameters further down the screen. It wouldn't work if you wanted more than two screens side-by-side, but like this it could work.

 Yceman Jun 1, 2003
I loved the snes Street Racer, and looking at those screens made me very excited about this saturn version... I think I'll be looking for this one

 Dyne Jun 1, 2003
well i read the first 2 pages and i must say even if i dont understand it all you guys amaze me

 Shitface Jun 1, 2003
Same here

 Tagrineth Jun 14, 2003
I'd just like to add a few new points re: Akumajo Dracula X.

I was wrong, most transparencies were replaced with crap dithering (the mist looks especially horrid).

However, I can prove the game was a victim of insanely bad programming:

Saturn has twice the usable main RAM (PS1 - 1MB, Saturn - 2MB). Saturn also has a much larger load buffer (can't remember the size but someone said it's 16x larger IIRC). Its CD-ROM is identical speed (2x). So in theory, at worst, the load times should be identical. Right?

Wrong.

On average, load times are over twice as long... and the subscreen takes about 4-7 seconds to load. AND an additional load is added before and after boss rooms and special conversations. WHY?!

 ExCyber Jun 14, 2003

  
	
	

		
		

			Saturn has twice the usable main RAM (PS1 - 1MB, Saturn - 2MB).


Actually, PSX has 2MB also. Saturn does however have an additional 512KB of VRAM that is dedicated to the frame buffers, whereas PSX has to allocate the frame buffer(s) out of its 1MB of VRAM. The catch here is that the VRAM is not unified; there's 512KB for VDP1 and 512KB for VDP2.


  
	
	

		
		

			Saturn also has a much larger load buffer (can't remember the size but someone said it's 16x larger IIRC). Its CD-ROM is identical speed (2x). So in theory, at worst, the load times should be identical. Right?



Wrong.



On average, load times are over twice as long... and the subscreen takes about 4-7 seconds to load. AND an additional load is added before and after boss rooms and special conversations. WHY?!


Yeah, that's the big giveaway, to my mind. If Playstation's CD-ROM subsystem were a Pentium, Saturn's would be a dual Pentium Pro. It's pretty ridiculous that the performance difference would suggest exactly the opposite. Still, I doubt programmer incompetence is to blame for this; they probably just weren't allowed enough time to do things properly.

 Tagrineth Jun 14, 2003

  
	
	

		
		

			Actually, PSX has 2MB also. Saturn does however have an additional 512KB of VRAM that is dedicated to the frame buffers, whereas PSX has to allocate the frame buffer(s) out of its 1MB of VRAM. The catch here is that the VRAM is not unified; there's 512KB for VDP1 and 512KB for VDP2.


That's why I said "usable" main RAM. 1MB on the PS1 is used for video.


  
	
	

		
		

			Yeah, that's the big giveaway, to my mind. If Playstation's CD-ROM subsystem were a Pentium, Saturn's would be a dual Pentium Pro. It's pretty ridiculous that the performance difference would suggest exactly the opposite. Still, I doubt programmer incompetence is to blame for this; they probably just weren't allowed enough time to do things properly.


It's also the OTHER Konami team that did the port. But it's still pathetic.

 ExCyber Jun 15, 2003

  
	
	

		
		

			That's why I said "usable" main RAM. 1MB on the PS1 is used for video.


There's a dedicated 1MB of VRAM in addition to the 2MB of work RAM.

 shinhoshi Jun 17, 2003
Dracula XX SS was made by KCEN (Nagoya) while the PSX one was made by KCET (Tokyo). If the SS port was made by KCEO the game would have been probably better because they were more talented using SS hardware (Policenauts and Snatcher).

The most fun about Dracula X on SS is that the slowdown is a totally random thing. I haven't experienced slowdown at all fighting the giant brain boss while the game had terrible slowdown with NO enemies on screen.

/*-----------------------------------------*/

But going back on topic, I think that it's impossible to make MGS on SS. It's so much things that PSX does by hard that SS should by soft. And just remember that all this would rest capabilities to the SH1 which pps is already very low. Sure BR looked very good but the draw distance was ridiculous. Sure VF2 hi-res and 60 fps was impressive, but when comparing char models to Tekken 3 (or even 2) the game paled considerably.

IMo, the main problem SS has is the low polygon power. And if you begin to add and add effects, this power decreases dramatically.

In the manual of SS, they claim to use the DSP to calculate coordinates (instead of SH-1)...The DSP from the Yamaha chip ?

 antime Jun 17, 2003

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by shinhoshi@Jun 18, 2003 @ 02:14 AM



And just remember that all this would rest capabilities to the SH1 which pps is already very low.


The SH1 handles CD subsystem requests, not sure what you mean here.


  
	
	

		
		

			Sure VF2 hi-res and 60 fps was impressive, but when comparing char models to Tekken 3 (or even 2) the game paled considerably.


More importantly, look how it achieved its high-res graphics - by mutilating the backgrounds.


  
	
	

		
		

			In the manual of SS, they claim to use the DSP to calculate coordinates (instead of SH-1)...The DSP from the Yamaha chip ?


The DSP of the SCU.

 fivefeet8 Jun 18, 2003

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by shinhoshi@Jun 17, 2003 @ 07:14 PM



 



But going back on topic, I think that it's impossible to make MGS on SS. It's so much things that PSX does by hard that SS should by soft. 



IMo, the main problem SS has is the low polygon power. And if you begin to add and add effects, this power decreases dramatically.


I think it's quite possible to make MGS on the Saturn. Hell, MGS on the psx runs at only 30fps and sometimes drops to 15-20 fps when heavy Framebuffer effects are used. And like someone said before, the saturn could use quads to draw a scene which on the psx would require more triangles.

The polygonal power of the saturn is on par with the psx.

 shinhoshi Jun 18, 2003
As far as I remember the 200000 texture-mapped pps of the SS are less than the 360000 that the PSX pushes with all effects turned on.

Realize that MGS is a tour de force for the PSX. KCEJ WEST pushed the machine further of its limits. It's a game specially designed to take advantage of PSX.

 AntiPasta Jun 18, 2003
well the Saturn can be pushed to its limits too... it's just harder

Moreover, the sound DSP is used for polygon processing in Shining Force 3, for instance - bringing the total number of programmable power to 4 processors

 Daniel Eriksson Jun 18, 2003

  
	
	

		
		

			Moreover, the sound DSP is used for polygon processing in Shining Force 3, for instance - bringing the total number of programmable power to 4 processors

Four? SH1, 2 * SH2 and the DSP, but what more? The Motorola 68EC000?

But what does the two VDPs do?


  
	
	

		
		

			Sure VF2 hi-res and 60 fps was impressive, but when comparing char models to Tekken 3 (or even 2) the game paled considerably.

I still think VF2 looks better. Just think of how the hair falls correctly on the caracters. But if you want more detailed caracters, Last Bronx did that. More detailed models, some 3d elements in the background, 60 fps and hi-res. Also, Dead or Alive did the same and as for me, it looks far better than tekken.

(Toshinden URA also had hi-res mode. Atleast thats what ive heard, I havent played it. However, it looks quite bad on the screenshots. Any other Saturn hi-res fighters?)

 Curtis Jun 18, 2003
Fighting Vipers was hi-res. I'd be surprised if Fighters Megamix and VF Kids were not hi-res.

 shinhoshi Jun 18, 2003
Just compare Akira with Jin Kazama. The geometry used in the PSX port of Tekken 3 was incredible higher. And the textures used are incredible...Just run it on emu and be amazed at the job Namco did. And it also runs at 60 fps.

Virtua Fighter is not a contender for Tekken 3, well at least this is what I think. This doesn't prove SS to be inferior to PSX nor the contrary, just that the game is not on par (IMO).

Is there any fighter that kills Tekken 3 and that runs on SS ??? Sure, it is called VF3 and SEGA released it for a machine called DC. VF3 has that geometry that VF2 lacks, incredible effects (such as the motion blur), dynamic environments and 60 fps. Why SEGA didn't release it for SS ? I still wonder this seeing some screenshots that showed a very polished work.

 antime Jun 18, 2003

  
	
	

		
		

			Originally posted by fivefeet8+Jun 18, 2003 @ 07:05 AM-->
QUOTE(fivefeet8 @ Jun 18, 2003 @ 07:05 AM)
And like someone said before, the saturn could use quads to draw a scene which on the psx would require more triangles. 



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Quads vs. triangles mean nothing if you're fill-rate limited.