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Why I think War with Iraq Is justifiable

Lyzel - Mar 15, 2003

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		mtxblau		Mar 17, 2003
			There's current development (by the gov't no less) that uses Hydrogen Fuel Cells, but gets the hydrogen from gasoline. Now, while that sounds stupid, it also could be that bridge between gasoline and hydrogen. On another note - pro-choice doesn't indicate anti-life. Kind of like anti-war doesn't mean anti-america or anti-troops. It really should simply be anti - abortion or pro - abortion, or anti choice or pro choice. Further, in the purest sense, if you anti-abortion except in specific circumstances (ie, rape victims), that'd technically make one pro-abortion. It's all semantics, really. In any event - I wish Bush would go to war already. I'm very against the war, but if he's going to do it without public support, at least quit wasting tax dollars to practice using weapons on dummy targets.

		Falstaf		Mar 17, 2003
			You might have noticed a lack of comment from me so far on this issue. Consider me neutral. I do have an opinion, but it has been expressed so well by somany others here. One point I would like to make. Military leaders have been using a term for several years to describe the destruction and loss of civilian life in conflicts. it's called collateral damage. Kind of de-humanizing when you think of it. Maybe one reason the US produces so many gung ho war hungry people is because, other than a brief touch in WW2 (Pearl habour), it has been 150 yrs since a land war was fought in the US. For amny people in Europe, Asia, Latin America, Africa and the Arab nations, war has been a common, if not un-expected part of their lives. It's amazing how peaceful the lives of most Americans has been for a long time. Yes, young men have gone and died in foriegn lands, but until a year ago, make that 4-5 years ago, (Oklahoma City), the conflicts that the US has had a hand in creating and or guiding have never come back to seriously bite it in the ass. Bad things always happened over there. There terrorist incedents were and are terrible things. But there is a hipocracy to the US policies that allow it to freely trade with countries that are seen as arrising markets, and condemn, threaten and invade those that hold resources and won't play the 'game'. THe US has great power. But with great power comes great responsability. Sadly, it has failed far too often, instead acting as a selfish, spoiled child nation that it is. Leading is not threatening and coercing others to your viewpoint. A true leader does not have to convince. THey are followed because they are trusted. Can the US really say this is true of itself? Lyzel.....It is exactly about that. If you have such strong convictions, live up to them. Though I have found that they who cheer the loudest never play the game. The sit warm and snug on the sidelines. Enjoy your TV guide. OK............so maybe not so neutral after all.

		tsumake		Mar 17, 2003
			I believe "responsibility" doesn't exist on an international scale. Ever since Machiavelli, who am I kidding since forever, power is simply power. Responsibility exists to the extent of preserving power. Moral responsibility is an illusion. Benevolent or even malevolent acts done on an international scale aren't accomplished on moral imperative; rather, they are done with selfish intentions. The prevalent intention is always economics or the gathering of resources. On a smaller scale, say a charitable act between two people, the resource is an ego boost. A person's happiness can be considered utility by some, hence self-satisfaction can be considered a resource. This war has challenged my views, my very perception of humanity. I find both sides to be ridiculous, but I can tolerate the warhawks. Why? Because to me it's blatantly obvious they're delusional and overly emotional for the most part. The same with the peaceniks. No one's innocent. No one's guilty. Welcome to humanity. "If we don't like something in this country, we declare war on it; we don't do anything about it, we just declare war on it." "Life is a zero sum game" --both by George Carlin

mal

Mar 17, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by tsumake@Mar 18, 2003 @ 09:01 AM



No one's innocent.



No one's guilty.



Welcome to humanity.

That is such a cop out.

Regardless of our discussions, the world is moving towards war.

Are you all going to tune into George's speech in about 5 minutes?

		DBOY		Mar 17, 2003
			Yes, I saw it. That was incredibly disappointing. I knew it was coming, but it's still disappointing that the entire country can follow around a man with his head so far up his ass it's coming back out his mouth. It's extremely disappointing how nobody seems to really grasp that just declaring a war or taking "military action" does not change the fact you are murdering people. The Spartans may have thought it did when they declared their yearly war on the Helots, but I don't think we have a god of war absolving us of that sin. The people in Iraq are people. When you kill them you are killing people. It's not "collateral damage," it's not "necessary civilian casualties," it's people. But the most disturbing thing to me is, the people of the US don't realize that this action will put into motion more events that will invariably come back to bite America in the ass even harder. America is fucking over countries one by one. I imagine if the government we have now lasts another 100 years, there will be enough people of the world America has fucked over for the world to declare war on America.

Curtis

Mar 17, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by mal+Mar 18, 2003 @ 06:53 PM-->QUOTE(mal @ Mar 18, 2003 @ 06:53 PM)
 QUOTE(Curtis @ Mar 18, 2003 @ 01:39 AM)
 




    	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by mal@Mar 18, 2003 @ 06:53 PM



 QUOTE(Curtis @ Mar 18, 2003 @ 01:39 AM)
 




    	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by mal@Mar 18, 2003 @ 06:53 PM



 QUOTE(DBOY @ Mar 18, 2003 @ 03:15 AM)
 QUOTE(Lyzel @ Mar 18, 2003 @ 06:35 AM)
 




    	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by DBOY@Mar 18, 2003 @ 03:15 AM



 QUOTE(Lyzel @ Mar 18, 2003 @ 07:11 AM)