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Jaded God - Mar 16, 2003

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antime

Mar 20, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by M3d10n@Mar 20, 2003 @ 06:18 PM



 The Saturn had no such problems. Since the 3D coordinates are totally ignored when rendering (it only cares about the quad coordinates on the screen), it merely distorts the texture to fit the specified quad, even if the quad vertices aren't co-planar in 3D.

The Playstation's graphics chip is also 2D-only, otherwise you're right.

		M3d10n		Mar 20, 2003
			Then the basic difference when it comes to texture rendering is: the saturn uses a more accurate routine than the PSX. The Saturn quad deformation performs a somewhat proper perspective distortion, whereas the PSX splits the texture quad in two triangles, and applies a different simple horizontal and vertical skew and scale effect for each triangle, so the texture's edges match the polygon's edges. You know, the swinging textures that plage most PSX games. But I always suspected that, while the PSX method produces glitches, it could be faster than the Saturn's. The lack of perspective distortion always seems less destructive on the texture's pixels when they are zoomed out. On the Saturn this creates extra pixelization if the textures are made of sharp details (later Saturn games got around that using smooth/low contrast textures - Shining Force 3).

		Daniel Eriksson		Mar 23, 2003
			So thats how it works! Ive heard about this with quads but ive never understood what they were or how it worked. Seems quite smart to me.

		M3d10n		Mar 24, 2003
			One interesting thing I noticed: in the Saturn, you don't need to make full 3D matrix calculations and view fustrum calculations to convert a 3D vector to a 2D screen cordinate in order to draw the polygons in the Saturn. The draw command in the Saturn, at least according to the docs I've been reading lately, is independent from the 3D calculation functions. The draw command actually takes the 4 on screen points the quad must fill, and a few other arguments. To draw polygons in a frame, you first do all your 3D math, and them do the frustum thing to get 2D coordinates, and issue the drawing routine for each polygon, telling them the 2D points on the screen. Due that, a celver programmer could use less accurate, even fake, cheap 3D calculations with some objects. Or cache 2D coordinates. Or calculating loads of coordinates, usinf offsets from a single one. In games with a fixed camera angle, this could offer loads of speed up, if done properly. As example, you could have a Resident Evil-style game, with fixed cameras, but real-time 3D scenery instead of pre-rendered. When a different camera is triggered, the Saturn calculates all 3D transformations to properly adjust the view, but it could then store the 2D coordinates for the scenery polygons in RAM, and stop calculating them, doing the 3D stuff only with the characters and moveable objects. In a full moving 3D game, this could be done for polygons after a certain distance. Maybe this was one of the tricks behind that awesome Shenmue demo.

		Agent21KGB		Mar 28, 2003
			Just to get back on subject Initial D is the best racing games on the Saturn, even though the psx version has to be one of the best racing games ever.

		Jaded God		Mar 28, 2003
			Errr I disagree I mean how the heck do you turn and drift right on Initial D for saturn... Bah controls seem all wacked out to me.

		CHAZumaru °_°		Mar 28, 2003
			Initial D better than Sega Rally ? Errrr... I hope you have very good arguments because like I initial D but woulnd't dare even compare it to SR.

		Taelon		Mar 28, 2003
			Yeah... Sega Rally is and always(?) will be king as far as control is concerned... it was the game that introduced the general public to the very concept of DRIFTING... and in style! But Initial D is great too. What I don't understand, however (and this isn't just against you Jaded_God ), is why gamers always blame a game's control for not getting the hang of how to play it right. I can drift and turn just fine in Initial D, and practically every racer for that matter, even the difficult Sonic R (nods at another thread). It's just practice, practice, practice - and the realization that GENTLE control instead of jerking the analog pad (or wheel) around in a panic is the secret.

		Daniel Eriksson		Mar 28, 2003
			Indeed! When you learn the controls, its fine. Scorcher, for example, is a great game if you get used to the controls and like hard stuff.

		ratfish		Mar 28, 2003
			I have seen the light, and the light said to me: CHORO Q PARK Yaaaaaaaaaay!

		Jaded God		Mar 28, 2003
			Someone teach me how to drift correctly and control that darn '86.

mal

Mar 28, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by SegaFreak@Mar 29, 2003 @ 08:26 AM



 I have seen the light, and the light said to me:



CHORO Q PARK



Yaaaaaaaaaay!

I just don't get that game. Not knowing any japanese makes it hard.

		Jaded God		Mar 29, 2003
			lol, I am right with ya Mal I tried it last night, got a headache.

		Taelon		Mar 31, 2003
			Heh... I knew nothing of Choro Q Park and still figured out enough to have fun with it when I got it. What helps knowing is the unique concept of racing... you race with multiple cars, not just one... Not all at once, instead what happens is when you cross certain magic lines on the road your car switches to another in mid-race; that way, before you start a race, you can choose which car to race in what section, allowing you to go with fast cars for long stretches, slower but more powerful cars for going uphill, cars with good handling and traction for curvy sections, etc... this adds an element of strategy to the whole thing and really makes it interesting. Besides - I just LOVE those cute little super-deformed cars. I just wanna hug them all.

		leocabron		Apr 6, 2003
			Somebody try Initial D??????????? Initial D is a Japanesse mix of 3d Racing Game with anime . The control is very good and the graphics are better. The game consists in races with one oponent.........if you win, you get better cars. Ahhhhhh, the menus are in English (only the dialogues are in Japanesse, but is not important for the game)

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