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googlefest1 - Nov 21, 2002

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		racketboy		Nov 22, 2002
			When I was talking about Nintendo's quality, I meant in relation to Sony, in particular. Some of you may have heard the quote from one of Capcom's game designers talking about how Sony makes their consoles cheaply so that they break and people have to buy a new one in order to increase their console sales. The only Nintendo hardware I have owned is a SNES and an orignal Gameboy. I haven't heard too many complaints about the quality of the consoles, but I could be wrong. Not much of a Nintendo expert.

		Taelon		Nov 22, 2002
			So far I completely agree with racketboy. The NES suffered from poor design of its cartridge connector which wore out much too fast, they chose a cheap part for it, which may just have been a poor-judgment decision that wasn't based on experience. I, for one, have not heard of any connection-related problems with the N64 and its games, now that I think of it. Oh, and the word is "cutthroat," as in cut-throat.

		googlefest1		Nov 22, 2002
			thanks for the spelling correction - i will probbaly forget it though yea the snes was solid nes was not - that design could have been beter if they used diferent material or thickness in that connector the sony thing - yes i heared that - i feel that about most sony stuff - snes was solid n64 - bad idea with power suply - i have 3 n64s they all have a power problem - they all work just sometimes they dont and you know how that power supply moves around i have to jiggle it untill it powers up - and thats on all 3 the guy that said that about sony was just pissed with them for some reason - they are very cheaply made (sony has alot of experience in that) but work as for nintendo i was mostly thinking about the nes days today they dont make all that kooky crap - which id like to see again though - if any company starts that up again id say it would be M$ - i dont know why i just have this feeling they want all kind of kooky devices to attract people i do think the xbox is quality just not optimized - ive droped it a couple times and it still works i have to say my view of nintendo was established since the 8 bit days - especialy comparing sega and nintendo -- so even if i like playing them i will think they are crapy ---- i know you may think its weird i kept adding to this periodicaly - bussy at work - i hope it makes sense

racketboy

Nov 22, 2002

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by googlefest1@Nov. 22 2002, 3:31 pm



thanks for the spelling correction - i will probbaly forget it though



yea the snes was solid



nes was not - that design could have been beter if they used diferent material or thickness in that connector 



the sony thing - yes i heared that - i feel that about most sony stuff - 



snes was solid n64 - bad idea with power suply - i have 3 n64s they all have a power problem - they all work just sometimes they dont and you know how that power supply moves around i have to jiggle it untill it powers up - and thats on all 3 



the guy that said that about sony was just pissed with them for some reason - they are very cheaply made (sony has alot of experience in that) but work 



as for nintendo i was mostly thinking about the nes days 



today they dont make all that kooky crap - which id like to see again though - if any company starts that up again id say it would be M$ - i dont know why i just have this feeling they want all kind of kooky devices to attract people 



i do think the xbox is quality just not optimized - ive droped it a couple times and it still works 



i have to say my view of nintendo was established since the 8 bit days - especialy comparing sega and nintendo -- so even if i like playing them i will think they are crapy ---- i know you may think its weird 



i kept adding to this periodicaly - bussy at work - i hope it makes sense

Well I'm thinking that Nintendo has learned from their mistake over the years. Anybody have a Gamecube that can comment on it's construction?

I've noticed Sony's products that involve lasers (cd drives) don't work the best. In addition to PSs, my wife had a Sony stereo system. the 3 CD changer stoped recognizing CDs after a couple of years. That's just not acceptable. I just use the speakers that came with it for my entertainment center until I get them money to get better ones.

		googlefest1		Nov 25, 2002
			ive had the same experience with many products im sure nintendo has learned from thier mistakes as most companies BTW you know there is an enginerring class called design for failure -- isint that fucked up -- but thats the way buisness is i think it all started with toy companies that wanted people to be forced to buy a new toy every six months

Myname

Nov 25, 2002

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by racketboy@Nov. 23 2002, 12:05 am



Well I'm thinking that Nintendo has learned from their mistake over the years. Anybody have a Gamecube that can comment on it's construction?

Yeah, and though I haven't put it through any gruelling physical and mental tests, it's safe to say it's a solid effort.. Not even a hint of a problem. It just sort of feels like quality, you know.. Hard to put you're finger on. I should do their marketing campaign.

A nice touch with the GC is finally there's a system with a button on the disc spindle to 'pop' it out, so you don't have to risk scratches anymore.

I'm gonna try not to get caught up in the web of contadictions this thread has started, but suffice to say everyone here seems to be convincing themselves that Sega is a poor lamb in a land of wolves (MS, Sony and Nintendo). Whilst it might be easy to think that way given that Sega has been the big loser in the hardware business, the truth is basically that they fucked themselves, as well as their fans, with such alarming consistency that it's amazing any of us are still around to care.

And if Sega had used some of the business practices you condemn the others for using, would you be so keen to dig up dirt? Or would you even care with that knowledge in your possession, so long as it was 'your' Sega on top? Plus, how many of those who did all that stuff are still at Nintendo now?

Message to Googleywooglyfest: Basically, you should buy what you enjoy, and not feel bad about it. You only live once, so don't deny yourself the enjoyment of playing, say, Metroid Prime when it's hot off the shelf just because Mario shat on your pillow when you were a kid.

ExCyber

Nov 25, 2002

	
	
		
		
			BTW you know there is an enginerring class called design for failure -- isint that fucked up

The name is a bit misleading - "design for failure" doesn't mean that you design a device to fail, it means that you make an effort to understand its failure modes and ensure that the consequences of each are as well-defined and minimized as possible.

	
	
		
		
			i think it all started with toy companies that wanted people to be forced to buy a new toy every six months

I've not noticed any significant flimsiness in modern toys beyond what switching from wood and metal to plastic can be expected to do; I think advertising is much more effective at making kids "need" new toys regularly.

googlefest1

Nov 25, 2002

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by Myname@Nov. 25 2002, 9:33 am



And if Sega had used some of the business practices you condemn the others for using, would you be so keen to dig up dirt? Or would you even care with that knowledge in your possession, so long as it was 'your' Sega on top? Plus, how many of those who did all that stuff are still at Nintendo now?



Message to Googleywooglyfest: Basically, you should buy what you enjoy, and not feel bad about it. You only live once, so don't deny yourself the enjoyment of playing, say, Metroid Prime when it's hot off the shelf just because Mario shat on your pillow when you were a kid.

if sega used them no -- id say "good job" lol

but ive read this from a few posts -- how would you say sega fucked them selves

and thanks for the message myname ill keep tha close to my heart

and to excyber -- no the class is design for failure as in desing stuff to stop working after a while -- this topic came up in my kinematics and dynamics of machines class when the prof made a comment about it - about chooseing materials and certain geometries so that the product would wear faster

Myname

Nov 25, 2002

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by googlefest1@Nov. 25 2002, 7:49 pm



but ive read this from a few posts -- how would you say sega fucked them selves



and thanks for the message myname ill keep tha close to my heart

Well.. When I was in school the Megadrive was the buzzword, the same as PSX or PS2 has been in more recent years. Even though the SNES sold more units, all you basically heard was 'Megadrive, Megadrive, Megadrive'.

Sega fucked themselves by releasing the Mega CD which was outrageously expensive at the time, then hardly giving it any support. Ditto the 32X. The Saturn wasn't much better, seeing as the Western World basically got all the shite games, and the few classics (PDS etc) that were released hardly had any copies made in Europe and the US. There's a list of let-downs as long as your arm (getting only a third of Shining Force 3 is another good example) that hardly encouraged people to invest in Sega stuff. The sad thing is, they got it mostly right with the DC (except for the damned VMU battery thing), but by that time people had moved on. Sega could (and should) have had the market sewn up by then.

		googlefest1		Nov 25, 2002
			ok thats waht your talking about --- yea they did that but the manufacturing cost was high thats why those things cost so much and i understand giving up suporting a system that had low sales (even though that pisses me off ) but in the buisness sense why suport something your loosing money on but as far as not getting any good games- that was the fault of the sega of america manager - sure i do blame sega for not fireing the guy - i cant do anything about that except sulk and blame him i gues i look at it as sega loosing it because they were the fore runners in inovation - once they came up with something- other companies took what sega did and made it cheaper and cheasyier - and people were more enticed to buy the cheaper unit

		gameboy900		Nov 25, 2002
			If you want to know the real history of sega on all it's consoles read this site. It's a fairly long read but it's very well done and quite objective. And if you want you can only read about the systems you want to know more about...no previous knowledge is needed. NOW GO READ Sega History... PS. Use the links on the top right to get the full articles.

Myname

Nov 25, 2002

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by googlefest1@Nov. 25 2002, 10:41 pm



i gues i look at it as sega loosing it because they were the fore runners in inovation - once they came up with something- other companies took what sega did and made it cheaper and cheasyier - and people were more enticed to buy the cheaper unit

Examples? Master System before NES.. Nope. Gamegear before Gameboy.. Nope. The SNES came after the Megadrive, but was far more capable. Saturn and PSX were at similar times, but the Saturn was apparently very hard to develop for, something I doubt anyone has consciously tried to rip off since.

And once you see the pattern (8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit etc), it's hard to maintain the argument that Sega had first dibs on the 'next big thing', only for others to rip them off. You could say that the Dreamcast was ripped off because it was the first 128-bit console, but it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to realize 128-bit was going to come after 64. The online thing had been done in home gaming before.. I really can't come up with anything that Sega has done in the hardware market that has been plagiarised by other companies.. No matter how 'evil' and 'dastardly' they might be.

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