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BIN+CUE versus ISO+MP3

dhau - Nov 25, 2003

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		Jaded God		Nov 27, 2003
			I for one support .cdi + dj. [snip] But, bin+cue will always be my preferred method of anything.

ExCyber

Nov 27, 2003

	
	
		
		
			ISO's can be both modes.. cooked or raw... the same with BIN's...

I'd say that the only type of image that can be legitimately called an "ISO" is an ISO 9660 / ECMA 119/168 filesystem image, which by definition consists of the largest possible 2^n-byte sectors supported by the medium (2048 for all standard CD-ROM sector formats). The data added to a "cooked" image is Yellow Book / ECMA 130 data, and has nothing to do with ISO 9660 specifically.

		IBarracudaI		Nov 27, 2003
			humm.. okay.. you won! :lol:

		slacker52		Nov 27, 2003
			nrg=good-less files to play with cdi=would be good but discjuggler was the biggest fork in my eye bin/cue=good, especially for a saturn leech like me iso/mp3wavoggvqf=goes good with a cue sheet img/sub/ccd=clonecd sux the big whale *** a more inane look: nrg=good for needing to make multiple copies cdi=just like nrg but DJ sux bin/cue=versital, and many programs can use iso/music=only a perfectionist nutcase would realy care, sure sound quality is lost but not that much img/sub/ccd=useless if a file is missing, and clonecd is dead anyway just adding feul to the fire here

Tagrineth

Nov 27, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by slacker52@Nov 27, 2003 @ 05:10 PM



 iso/music=only a perfectionist nutcase would realy care, sure sound quality is lost but not that much

It isn't so much sound quality as it is data location.

With iso/mp3, the usual standard 'postgap 00:02:00 after track one' thing is used - but that's rarely the correct location for track 2, let alone all remaining audio tracks.

Also, elimination of iso/mp3 would remove all the dual data track problems.

	
	
		
		
			 Bin+Cue = best



NRG or Clone CD = second best



CDI = third best



Iso+mp3 = fourth best

Once again, bin/cue can't be the best, for two really simple reasons:

1. Can't maintain multisession info. [snip]

2. File structure isn't maintained fully. The allocation table and subchannel data aren't stored in bin/cue.

		mal		Nov 27, 2003
			Jaded and Tagrineth, no DC copy talk please.

		racketboy		Nov 27, 2003
			please don't talk about burning DC games. it's against the rules.

		CrazyGoon		Nov 27, 2003
			A Clone CD img is virtually a raw iso in disguise. Ever tried burning a clone cd img, then ripping the game you burnt as a raw iso+cue? File sizes are exactly the same and if you have ever renamed the original .img file to .iso, and burnt that along with the cue (no need for sub and ccd files) you will end up burning the exact same thing. And if it's a saturn game, rename the .img to .iso and satcon can read it. Why? Because Clone CD img files are just raw iso files in disguise! :devil And yeah, Tagrineth, I agree with what you said before the snip. Perhaps Clone CD is the best after all (they keep multisession info and file structure, don't they?)

		IBarracudaI		Nov 27, 2003
			CrazyGoon, not raw iso's but raw bin's! it's different

		Gallstaff		Nov 27, 2003
			Bah I say beggers can't be choosers and since no one here is paying for the iso/mp3's or bin/cue's in question, we shouldnt' be debating which format is better or not. I dunno that's just my thoughts

		CrazyGoon		Nov 27, 2003
			Err, I'm lost here If you rename a clone cd .img to .bin it wont be regonised, whereas .iso will be. Raw iso? Yes. If you have any mp3's with your iso then it's not raw. No? And Gallstaff, this argument is no different from arguments about which compression program is the best. Doesn't really got anything to do with money.

		Jurai		Nov 28, 2003
			CDI wasnt in the original choices, but i agree with tagrineth that it's a better format than bin/cue or iso/mp3. Plus you dont have to lurch around for cue files.

		Alexvrb		Nov 28, 2003
			Well, .cdi or .nrg are the best options if perfection is what you're looking for. I don't use DJ, nor do I ever plan to, but I've never had any trouble converting to Nero format. I've heard bad things about Nero 6, but I have no experience with it myself. I still use 5.5.x - does 6 burn DC homebrew OK? I don't care about burning illegal stuff.

		CrazyGoon		Nov 28, 2003
			What about Clone CD images? They include the multisession info, don't they?

slacker52

Nov 28, 2003

	
	
		
		
			What about Clone CD images? They include the multisession info, don't they?

id assume so, since the purpose of clone cd was to copy a cd as much as possible.

	
	
		
		
			With iso/mp3, the usual standard 'postgap 00:02:00 after track one' thing is used - but that's rarely the correct location for track 2, let alone all remaining audio tracks.

i thought you could edit a cue sheet and kill that postgap :huh so

	
	
		
		
			only a perfectionist nutcase would realy care

keeping in mind of course that im not perfectionist nutcase, just a nutcase :looney

Tagrineth

Nov 28, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by mal@Nov 27, 2003 @ 10:33 PM



 Jaded and Tagrineth, no DC copy talk please.

Hey, 'burning DC games' includes LEGAL homebrewn stuff too.

Edit: Added: Oh, and there's one fatal flaw that bin/cue and CloneCD have which automatically discount them from possibly being the best format: Lose the cue sheet or CloneCD control file, and your image becomes completely worthless.

dhau

Nov 29, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by Gallstaff@Nov 28, 2003 @ 12:28 AM



 Bah I say beggers can't be choosers and since no one here is paying for the iso/mp3's or bin/cue's in question, we shouldnt' be debating which format is better or not.



I dunno that's just my thoughts

Mmmm... If someone decides to serve, they might respect the opinion of majority about BIN/CUE instead of ISO/MP3

If I'll ever finish setting up my Linux boxen, I might put up some donkey releases, and for sure they will be bin/cue exlusivly.

dhau

Nov 29, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Edit: Added: Oh, and there's one fatal flaw that bin/cue and CloneCD have which automatically discount them from possibly being the best format: Lose the cue sheet or CloneCD control file, and your image becomes completely worthless.

Mmmm, I had impression that with cdmage or ISO Buster it is possible to rebuild .CUE from .BIN. I'll check this tomorrow.

CrazyGoon

Nov 29, 2003

	
	
		
		
			Originally posted by Tagrineth@Nov 28, 2003 @ 07:05 PM



Oh, and there's one fatal flaw that bin/cue and CloneCD have which automatically discount them from possibly being the best format: Lose the cue sheet or CloneCD control file, and your image becomes completely worthless.

I love cue sheets. And btw, you have just as much chance at loosiing a cue sheet as you have with losing the bin itself! Bins are usually distrubuted with the cue, and if they aren't, then it's your fault for downloading the useless bin. Though, yes, with nero or dj, you only have one file to lose, which I guess makes it better?. Losing files shouldn't be the problem.

	
	
		
		
			If I'll ever finish setting up my Linux boxen, I might put up some donkey releases, and for sure they will be bin/cue exlusivly.

Cheers

Just don't burn iso+mp3's and re-rip them as bin+cues. You end up with the same quality file as the iso+mp3 except larger file size.

		Taelon		Nov 29, 2003
			I totally love iso/mp3 (and for dual data-track games, I use Nero). Why? Because: 1. I got the postgap issue licked to where I can reliably make an iso/wav or iso/mp3 rip of a disc such that when burned back to CD, the audio tracks land exactly where they're supposed to. No 2-second shifting. 2. You guys are always quick to complain about sound quality degradation due to mp3 compression. Which I absolutely don't understand because a. given a good encoder and a high-enough bitrate (160 or 192) quality is virtually a non-issue, and b. while game music is important, it usually is only heard in the background while the game sounds take center stage, and c. you people don't complain about downloading your favorite music and albums in mp3 format, do you? So there. I love iso/mp3.

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